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Mission 10 confusion


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I'm puzzled by Mission 10. First, the briefing and waypoints in the ME tells me I should be flying the entire sortee at over 6,000 ft, but there are voice cues telling me to keep it low (1,000 ft AGL at WP 2, and to pop up at WP 6), and flying high seems to be asking for a SAM launch. The assigned altitude also seems to put me in the clouds a lot. I've been ignoring the assigned altitude as a result. Second, there is the weird path in the flight plan where I'm supposed to fly almost directly over waypoint 4 on my way to waypoint three, then do a 180 back to 4. I assumed that was to delay my arrival so I would be coordinated with the F-4s. What I find is that when I fly over 4 on the way to 3 I get a voice prompt to turn southeast (130 degrees) and follow the valley down to WP 5 and 6 rather than continue to WP 3. If I ignore that and fly to WP 3, then circle around to the north to go back to WP 4, 5, and 6, I'm quite late getting to the AO relative to the briefed TOT for WP 6. If instead, I turn as instructed and head for WP 6 I arrive at the target pretty close to the assigned TOT, but then find that the F-4s have not yet started doing their thing. 

 

Perhaps most frustrating is that when I pop up and then fly low and fast towards the target I'm getting Igla's (from Manpads?) and AAA from the multiple ZSU-23's right in the face and throughout the bombing run. So even when I successfully deploy some Paveways to take some of them out, the other ones get me before I can get over the next ridge and out of their line of sight. The briefing tells me that I should be coordinating the attack with the F-4s so that the enemy defenses are not totally focused on me, but that doesn't seem to be working. Also, my flight just follows me into the danger zone and either dies or bugs out without deploying any weapons. They do not engage or carry out the mission orders even when attacked.

 

Any tips or suggestions welcome.

 

I'm Softball on Multiplayer. Dell XPS-8500 24GB, i7-3770@3.40GHz, Win 10Pro, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, TiR, VKB Gunfighter III with MCG Ultimate grip, CH throttle and pedals, all maps, most modules

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I think you may be taking the wrong valley towards the target, the run should be in the valley, masked from the Igla's and ZSU's the FAC will tell you when to pop up, this way you attack perpendicular to their direction, and once you finish a run you hide behind the other side of the mountain, gain speed and do a standard turn 90 one direction and 270 the other direction, you should see the smoke over the valley and do a second run on the second target. 

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8 hours ago, SorelRo said:

I think you may be taking the wrong valley towards the target, the run should be in the valley, masked from the Igla's and ZSU's the FAC will tell you when to pop up, this way you attack perpendicular to their direction, and once you finish a run you hide behind the other side of the mountain, gain speed and do a standard turn 90 one direction and 270 the other direction, you should see the smoke over the valley and do a second run on the second target. 

I don't think that's the problem. I've followed my progress against the waypoints on the kneeboard map and I do get the prompt to pop up and turn in just before waypoint 6. I am shielded from the ZSU's and Igla's at that point. It's in close right after I pass the last ridge where I start to get hammered. I tried again last night using rockets for the first attack instead of bombs and tried to jink more on the attack run. That helped and I was able to get over the ridge past the target and dive for protection. So I'm making progress. But when I turned back in for another run they took me down almost as soon as I cleared the ridge line.

 

I'm still interested if you have any comments on the altitude issue, or what is the role of the detour out to waypoint 3. You didn't address those in your reply.

 

BTW, I've now twice had an unusual experience where after being KIA I watched the other planes for a few minutes to see what they were doing and then paused the mission by opening the score page or the briefing. After looking at those I pushed the "Fly" button and immediately found myself back in the hangar at Krymsk sitting in a cold and dark undamaged plane, with the "Mission Complete" message in the corner of the screen. This resurrection and teleportation apparently increased my score to 100! But since I had not completed the mission to my own satisfaction I closed the mission without saving progress so that I can try again.

I'm Softball on Multiplayer. Dell XPS-8500 24GB, i7-3770@3.40GHz, Win 10Pro, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, TiR, VKB Gunfighter III with MCG Ultimate grip, CH throttle and pedals, all maps, most modules

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1 hour ago, sthompson said:

I don't think that's the problem. I've followed my progress against the waypoints on the kneeboard map and I do get the prompt to pop up and turn in just before waypoint 6. I am shielded from the ZSU's and Igla's at that point. It's in close right after I pass the last ridge where I start to get hammered. I tried again last night using rockets for the first attack instead of bombs and tried to jink more on the attack run. That helped and I was able to get over the ridge past the target and dive for protection. So I'm making progress. But when I turned back in for another run they took me down almost as soon as I cleared the ridge line.

 

I'm still interested if you have any comments on the altitude issue, or what is the role of the detour out to waypoint 3. You didn't address those in your reply.

 

BTW, I've now twice had an unusual experience where after being KIA I watched the other planes for a few minutes to see what they were doing and then paused the mission by opening the score page or the briefing. After looking at those I pushed the "Fly" button and immediately found myself back in the hangar at Krymsk sitting in a cold and dark undamaged plane, with the "Mission Complete" message in the corner of the screen. This resurrection and teleportation apparently increased my score to 100! But since I had not completed the mission to my own satisfaction I closed the mission without saving progress so that I can try again.

I'll run a test tonight and see if everything works as it should with that mission. 

 

As for the waypoint detour, that would be a holding area until your FAC clears you in, and a bit of a safeguard there in case someone misses the first trigger. However, you as a rule abiding fighter pilot, when the FAC tells you to do something, you do it. 🙂 The same for the altitude instructions. But it is up to you if you want to push it over the clouds and stay under. 

 

As for the weirdness of the mission complete buttons and bugs lately. I'll try to replicate it, but i'm afraid that it behaves differently between single mission and campaign flying. It's probably related to the End Mission bug by what you described there.  

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Posted (edited)

More on the bug I mentioned regarding resurrection after a failed mission. I flew Mission 10 and deliberately crashed shortly after takeoff, then looked at a few planes who were still flying (external view), then pushed LAlt B to view the briefing, then the FLY button. This kicked me back to a hangar at Krymsk cold and dark. I'm attaching the debrief log that shows me restored to life. The track file is too big to post in the forums, but it shows the same thing. This is on OB 2.7. mission 10.log

 

Edit I discovered that this is a bug that has nothing to do with the campaign. I was able to reproduce it using an Instant Action campaign for the F-15. I reported it here: 

 


Edited by sthompson
update on the bug

I'm Softball on Multiplayer. Dell XPS-8500 24GB, i7-3770@3.40GHz, Win 10Pro, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, TiR, VKB Gunfighter III with MCG Ultimate grip, CH throttle and pedals, all maps, most modules

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On 5/17/2021 at 11:31 PM, sthompson said:

More on the bug I mentioned regarding resurrection after a failed mission. I flew Mission 10 and deliberately crashed shortly after takeoff, then looked at a few planes who were still flying (external view), then pushed LAlt B to view the briefing, then the FLY button. This kicked me back to a hangar at Krymsk cold and dark. I'm attaching the debrief log that shows me restored to life. The track file is too big to post in the forums, but it shows the same thing. This is on OB 2.7. mission 10.log

 

Edit I discovered that this is a bug that has nothing to do with the campaign. I was able to reproduce it using an Instant Action campaign for the F-15. I reported it here: 

 

 

Turns out this isn't a bug but rather a feature that I've never seen in action previously. 

I'm Softball on Multiplayer. Dell XPS-8500 24GB, i7-3770@3.40GHz, Win 10Pro, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, TiR, VKB Gunfighter III with MCG Ultimate grip, CH throttle and pedals, all maps, most modules

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On 5/17/2021 at 9:52 AM, sthompson said:

I don't think that's the problem. I've followed my progress against the waypoints on the kneeboard map and I do get the prompt to pop up and turn in just before waypoint 6. I am shielded from the ZSU's and Igla's at that point. It's in close right after I pass the last ridge where I start to get hammered. I tried again last night using rockets for the first attack instead of bombs and tried to jink more on the attack run. That helped and I was able to get over the ridge past the target and dive for protection. So I'm making progress. But when I turned back in for another run they took me down almost as soon as I cleared the ridge line.

 

I'm still really struggling with this mission. Have flown it close to 20 times without achieving success because I always get shot down. If not on the first pass then on the second one. It's getting old. Any tips would be welcome. My most effective strategy so far has been to come in very low and fast (400+ knots) with rockets and hope I get the Iglas before they get me. Other strategies have almost always gotten me killed on the first pass.

I'm Softball on Multiplayer. Dell XPS-8500 24GB, i7-3770@3.40GHz, Win 10Pro, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, TiR, VKB Gunfighter III with MCG Ultimate grip, CH throttle and pedals, all maps, most modules

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22 hours ago, sthompson said:

I'm still really struggling with this mission. Have flown it close to 20 times without achieving success because I always get shot down. If not on the first pass then on the second one. It's getting old. Any tips would be welcome. My most effective strategy so far has been to come in very low and fast (400+ knots) with rockets and hope I get the Iglas before they get me. Other strategies have almost always gotten me killed on the first pass.

The way this should be flown, and maybe you are doing this but you are just unlucky, once the FAC gives you the order to turn right and follow the valley, turn on the indicated heading. you have a tiny ridge in front of you and a valley opens up, that is clear of enemy forces. you can stay there masked and if you don't drop too low, you should even be able to see the orange smoke from the two targets. That's the moment you can order your flight to engage "Mission and Rejoin". They won't do too much damage but they will take Igla's away from you.  Once the FAC tells you to pop, you can go over the ridge and stay low, and attack perpendicular to the valley where the AA guns and Igla's are positioned. I go first for a rocket pass and take the first site out, maintain my heading and jump over the ridge on the other side of the valley dropping flares. I see Igla's soaring past sometimes. I stay low and fly towards the sea for a few seconds, turn and re-acquire the smokes and come for another pass and take the second site with the rockets left or with bombs, this should give enough damage to pass the mission and go on. Sorry it's frustrating for you. I know other players have gone through it and have been successful. 

 

I hope this helps.   

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I'm having a hell of a time with it as well, following the same procedure as sthompson.  Dropping bombs first is suicide, yet carrying them through on a rocket run is so very cumbersome on the plane.  I'm really enjoying this fantastic campaign, but having to fly so many missions 10+ times is just eating far to much of my real world time.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Mango said:

I'm having a hell of a time with it as well, following the same procedure as sthompson.  Dropping bombs first is suicide, yet carrying them through on a rocket run is so very cumbersome on the plane.  I'm really enjoying this fantastic campaign, but having to fly so many missions 10+ times is just eating far to much of my real world time.

You can always skip it. Sorry I made it this hard. I even tweaked the pass conditions at the last update so it's easier to get a passing score. As long as you score hits on the two sites and the F-4's are able to hit the SA-3 site and you stay alive it should give you a passing score. 


Edited by SorelRo
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I refuse to give up, I've waiting too long for this.  🙂   Thanks, having that additional information really helps.  Calling "Engage Rejoin/Mission" also seems to take some pressure off.

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1 hour ago, Mango said:

I refuse to give up, I've waiting too long for this.  🙂   Thanks, having that additional information really helps.  Calling "Engage Rejoin/Mission" also seems to take some pressure off.

Same here. I've gotten to the point that I can make hits on both sites. But never a successful RTB afterwards. Either I'm killed or the plane is too badly damaged and I have to eject. But the stupid AI never do what they are told. Half the time one or more of them crash into the ground before we even get to the AO. And when I tell them to engage they seem way too eager to pop up to an altitude that invites multiple SAM launches.

 

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I'm Softball on Multiplayer. Dell XPS-8500 24GB, i7-3770@3.40GHz, Win 10Pro, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, TiR, VKB Gunfighter III with MCG Ultimate grip, CH throttle and pedals, all maps, most modules

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I was just about to mention this too.  The last few missions are stupendously hard simply because I leave base with 3 wingmen and only 1 makes it to the AO without crashing!  😠 I know this is a function of the engine and not this campaign, it it's a real shame that the flaky AI interferes with other developers' hard work.

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Posted (edited)

I'm at a loss for strategy.  You can't fly directly into the barrel of a AAA battery without getting swiss cheesed.   Once you pop the ridge they can literally see you a mile away, and you need to deploy at point blank range whether with bombs or rockets.  

 

EDIT:  Did it.  Finally managed to get to the AO as a full flight of 4!  Came in on the first target from higher altitude at 400 kts and hammered them with bombs.  Then swung around the mountain side to hit the other with rockets.   Speed is life.  They still got me though, and blew the shit out of my fuel tanks.  I promptly ran out of gas and then belly landed in a field.   Mission Complete!


Edited by Mango
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I finally finished it too. The key seemed to be to fly a bit higher on approach so that my flight did not lawndart into hills, then deliver a lot more ordinance quickly than I had been trying earlier. That is, all 5 bombs on one target first pass, then all rocket pods at once on the second. Also a lot of jinking to keep the remaining ZSU-23's hit percentage low. I even managed to get back to base. A lot of fun, but I'm glad to move on. I see that the next mission has nicer weather, which will be welcome after all of that flying under low clouds.

 

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I'm Softball on Multiplayer. Dell XPS-8500 24GB, i7-3770@3.40GHz, Win 10Pro, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, TiR, VKB Gunfighter III with MCG Ultimate grip, CH throttle and pedals, all maps, most modules

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Posted (edited)

I had to skip this mission, honestly after 8 tries. No issue so far in the campaign, but this one is difficult. The F4s are a bit late to attack, I find ; from the FAC saying turn 130 into the valley, I need to make a detour otherwise no missiles are incoming to the SAMs once I fly over the ridge. I have the same problem as others: ZSU + Iglas always manage to get me and even with rockets I never manage to take them all out. I tried different tactics, starting with bombs then focusing on long range lucky rocket shots... Never managed to make the required 2 runs and survive. AI wingmen are hopelessly useless in this scenario, they attract SAM fire, not AAA/Igla fire. They also jettison weapons as soon as they are engaged so they have no ordinance left for the targets.

 

I really like what you tried to do with this mission, some of it is definitely not up to you. But in the end I find this mission very, very hard. I am not sure anything as suicidal as this would ever be attempted IRL. I know and understand that difficulty balance is extremely difficult in DCS due to the nature of the AI, I am just giving my honest opinion here. No judgement, and I appreciate to have the option to skip it.

 

The next mission is a lot more chilled: the Hawk shoots down 2 MiGs before I reach my CAP station, then I flew at altitude listening to the AWACS, all enemy planes turned around and RTB after a while. I stayed on station for a while until I was bingo fuel, then RTB. Mission complete without firing a shot, just taking in the scenery. Now that's a change of pace, though I am curious if this is intended. I heard 2 calls from my wingmen that "the Mig is down!", but it was the Hawk that shot them, I was still circling WP1 waiting for all my wingmen at that point.


Edited by Qiou87

AMD R5 5600X | 32GB DDR4 3000MHz | RTX 3080 | HP Reverb G2 | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk3 | Thrustmaster TCWS

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17 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

 

 

The next mission is a lot more chilled: the Hawk shoots down 2 MiGs before I reach my CAP station, then I flew at altitude listening to the AWACS, all enemy planes turned around and RTB after a while. I stayed on station for a while until I was bingo fuel, then RTB. Mission complete without firing a shot, just taking in the scenery. Now that's a change of pace, though I am curious if this is intended. I heard 2 calls from my wingmen that "the Mig is down!", but it was the Hawk that shot them, I was still circling WP1 waiting for all my wingmen at that point.

 

Probably another case of AI doing whatever they are not supposed to do. 😞 I swear sometimes I wish I could sprinkle them with holy water or something, they act like they are possessed.  

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4 hours ago, SorelRo said:

Probably another case of AI doing whatever they are not supposed to do. 😞 I swear sometimes I wish I could sprinkle them with holy water or something, they act like they are possessed.  

I guess it is like trying to train a very old, deaf and stupid dog. Whatever you do, it is going to do what it wants in the end.  😅 Don't worry, in my opinion this kind of "variability" is welcome. When you are tasked with CAP, you are not necessarily going to engage fighters. Here I needed to protect the KW, and I did it, they are all fine and RTB. 2 idiot MiGs got shot down by our SAMs, doesn't matter ; the other enemy fighters turned around because they saw that they had opposition. I never chased them due to SAM-coverage. This is all very realistic. Even in a war, not every plane comes back to base with clean racks. As I said: nice change of pace.

 

PS: if you ever need some help with beta testing some changes on a mission or two, don't hesitate to ask. I think many of us here understand the difficulty to create such complex missions, and it can help to have extra people testing and "breaking" the mission logic to see what happens.

AMD R5 5600X | 32GB DDR4 3000MHz | RTX 3080 | HP Reverb G2 | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk3 | Thrustmaster TCWS

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7 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

I guess it is like trying to train a very old, deaf and stupid dog. Whatever you do, it is going to do what it wants in the end.  😅 Don't worry, in my opinion this kind of "variability" is welcome. When you are tasked with CAP, you are not necessarily going to engage fighters. Here I needed to protect the KW, and I did it, they are all fine and RTB. 2 idiot MiGs got shot down by our SAMs, doesn't matter ; the other enemy fighters turned around because they saw that they had opposition. I never chased them due to SAM-coverage. This is all very realistic. Even in a war, not every plane comes back to base with clean racks. As I said: nice change of pace.

 

PS: if you ever need some help with beta testing some changes on a mission or two, don't hesitate to ask. I think many of us here understand the difficulty to create such complex missions, and it can help to have extra people testing and "breaking" the mission logic to see what happens.

Thanks a lot man. How good you are with the Harrier? 

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On 6/1/2021 at 5:48 AM, Qiou87 said:

The next mission is a lot more chilled: the Hawk shoots down 2 MiGs before I reach my CAP station, then I flew at altitude listening to the AWACS, all enemy planes turned around and RTB after a while. I stayed on station for a while until I was bingo fuel, then RTB. Mission complete without firing a shot, just taking in the scenery. Now that's a change of pace, though I am curious if this is intended. I heard 2 calls from my wingmen that "the Mig is down!", but it was the Hawk that shot them, I was still circling WP1 waiting for all my wingmen at that point.

 

The first time I flew Mission 11 a Mig-21 engaged. Overlord was talking all the time but never gave intel on the close in bogey, despite reporting repeatedly on pop-up groups 60-80 miles away. The Bogey came in very high so I missed it on radar, then snuck in behind my flight and took us out one at a time. I checked six only to see number two go down and a missile launched at my rear quarter taking me down. The second time I flew the mission the Hawks took out any MiG that came close and the others turned tail. None got close to the helos. So my flight also went RTB without engaging anything. Mission Complete! So some level of randomness in the experience.

I'm Softball on Multiplayer. Dell XPS-8500 24GB, i7-3770@3.40GHz, Win 10Pro, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, TiR, VKB Gunfighter III with MCG Ultimate grip, CH throttle and pedals, all maps, most modules

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SorelRo said:

Thanks a lot man. How good you are with the Harrier? 

I don’t own it. I am competent in a Viper, Hornet, Huey, TigerII and Viggen, as well as P51. I own a few others but these are the ones I fly regularly.

 

32 minutes ago, sthompson said:

The first time I flew Mission 11 a Mig-21 engaged. Overlord was talking all the time but never gave intel on the close in bogey, despite reporting repeatedly on pop-up groups 60-80 miles away. The Bogey came in very high so I missed it on radar, then snuck in behind my flight and took us out one at a time. I checked six only to see number two go down and a missile launched at my rear quarter taking me down. The second time I flew the mission the Hawks took out any MiG that came close and the others turned tail. None got close to the helos. So my flight also went RTB without engaging anything. Mission Complete! So some level of randomness in the experience.

Wow! I think this kind of randomness is actually welcome. Real life doesn’t tell you how everything is going to pan out and you have to improvise.


Edited by Qiou87

AMD R5 5600X | 32GB DDR4 3000MHz | RTX 3080 | HP Reverb G2 | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk3 | Thrustmaster TCWS

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3 hours ago, sthompson said:

The first time I flew Mission 11 a Mig-21 engaged. Overlord was talking all the time but never gave intel on the close in bogey, despite reporting repeatedly on pop-up groups 60-80 miles away. The Bogey came in very high so I missed it on radar, then snuck in behind my flight and took us out one at a time. I checked six only to see number two go down and a missile launched at my rear quarter taking me down. The second time I flew the mission the Hawks took out any MiG that came close and the others turned tail. None got close to the helos. So my flight also went RTB without engaging anything. Mission Complete! So some level of randomness in the experience.

I think that the logic of the AWACS items in DCS is a bit different than what we expect. By default it looks like it will give you information on new contacts and in change of target aspect. So if a bogey comes to you, and you get a call when he is 40 miles or so and there is no change in heading and altitude, you will not get an update unless you request bogey dope. However, if a contact is orbiting 60-70 miles away, you will get calls for that every time they change direction. so your SA goes to total crap. Unfortunately, with the tools in hand we can't have something that will act like a GCI, where you get BRAA and also the proper vectors to intercept and to intercept on a proper attack curve. I'm tinkering with some ideas on how to script this but so far nothing too good came out of it, and also, even if this would be possible, there would be so much change in verbiage as a 3rd part dev I won't be able to do it, and i don't think ED has a public API for the voices yet. But it would be nice for the F-5 and Mig-21 and the rest of the Red airforce to have that kind of feature, to be talked on to intercepting a target.  

2 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

I don’t own it. I am competent in a Viper, Hornet, Huey, TigerII and Viggen, as well as P51. I own a few others but these are the ones I fly regularly.

 

Wow! I think this kind of randomness is actually welcome. Real life doesn’t tell you how everything is going to pan out and you have to improvise.

 

Huey is in my plans, it could fit in the same scenario with the Black Sea Resolve. I'll milk that 1979 as much as I can. 😄

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