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Continued Cut Pass grades from LSO


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Posted (edited)

Not sure where to post this, mods ... please move where appropriate.

 

I have been using @Bankler Case I recovery trainer for months and thought I was making improvements.  I can fairly consistently score in the 60's.  Unfortunately I must have done something to tick off my LSO officers because it seems like I can't get anything but a CUT PASS from them!  

 

I am posting two tracks for the community to check out.  One scored 65 on Bankler's training and the other 66.  Both received Cut passes from the LSO.  Can someone more wise than me PLEASE tell me what I am doing "unsafe with unacceptable deviations"?  

 

I very much appreciate any help the community can provide.

 

Thanks!

 

NOTE:  I am on the latest OB

 

Cut_Score_65_2.trk Cut_Score_66.trk


Edited by Mistermann

MM

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ASUS P9X79 | i7 3930K | 16GB DDR3 | Nvidia Geforce GTX780 | Win7 64 | HOTAS Thrustmaster T.16000M & TWCS

Yeah, I need a serious upgrade :)

 

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Without watching the trks yet, can I guess that these cut paases are accompanied by some flavor of EGIW, 3PTS, EGTL comments?  If so, the short answer is that it's a bug that's existed with the Hornet since the Supercarrier released.  Those critiques are normally given unless you cheat to avoid them by adding power before touchdown when you don't need it... and they'll push your pass grade into a Cut.

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I'll have a look in the morning.  Thanks!

MM

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ASUS P9X79 | i7 3930K | 16GB DDR3 | Nvidia Geforce GTX780 | Win7 64 | HOTAS Thrustmaster T.16000M & TWCS

Yeah, I need a serious upgrade :)

 

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Posted (edited)

So, @Stearmandriver was correct, both passes received the following LSO grades.

 

65 Score = LSO: GRADE:C : _LULX_  _DLIC_  _LULIC_  _TMRDAR_  (LLIW)  3PTSIW  WIRE# 2 _EGIW_ 

66 Score = LSO: GRADE:C : _LULIC_  _DLIC_  (LLIW)  3PTSIW  WIRE# 3

 

3PTSIW being common between the grades. 

 

Now, as I think about that grade I am saying to myself, "the only way to get a 3PTSIW is to drop my AOA so flat that all three tires hit the deck together ... there's NO way I am doing that!"

 

So, I go back through the track and try and observe why the LSO thought they saw a 3PTSIW.

 

These images below are from the 66 Score track:

 

AOA75a.png  AOA63a.png  AOA45a.png

 

Okay ... that seems odd.  I wasn't moving the stick so the nose must be falling due to a defect.  Yeah, that's the problem.  It can't be me.  🙄

 

So I went back into the track to check out the E-Bracket as I cross over the back of the boat. 

 

HUD_120.png  HUD_60.png  HUD_On Deck.png

 

SERIOUSLY?!?  😠

 

I think I diagnosed the problem - and ... as in Real Life ... the LSO was right! 

 

image.png

 

Back to the trainer to work on maintaining AOA throughout the entire trap!  😇


Edited by Mistermann
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MM

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ASUS P9X79 | i7 3930K | 16GB DDR3 | Nvidia Geforce GTX780 | Win7 64 | HOTAS Thrustmaster T.16000M & TWCS

Yeah, I need a serious upgrade :)

 

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  • Solution

Well, the thing is, you didn't do anything wrong.  The bug is that the DCS Hornet's nose drops sharply just before touchdown, for no reason.  It should not do that, it's a bug in the flight model. 

 

So, yes, the LSO is correctly critiquing a 3pt landing; but the airplane itself is doing something it should not do.  I asked about this a while back in the Hornet subforum, and Bignewy said he thought it was one of the things being looked at in the flight model review. 

 

The only way to somewhat prevent it is to make a significant power addition a second or so before touchdown.  This is a way to trick the system; but it can obviously destabilize the pass and push you into a 4 wire.  Frustrating, but that's what it is right now. 

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Ahhhh ... that IS interesting.  Makes sense because I could have sworn I was on AOA the whole time.  It seems to abruptly decrease right before touchdown.  @BIGNEWY, should this be in the defect/bug section?

 

Thanks for the assistance, @Stearmandriver 👍

MM

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ASUS P9X79 | i7 3930K | 16GB DDR3 | Nvidia Geforce GTX780 | Win7 64 | HOTAS Thrustmaster T.16000M & TWCS

Yeah, I need a serious upgrade :)

 

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Well that was an exercise in frustration ... 🙄

 

I feel like I've been training to land on the carrier "the right way" for months (literally).  I keep a log of carrier landings over on @Ansirial logbook page (highly recommend).  As you can see, I am pretty consistent with the Cut Pass. 

 

image.png

Would have been relegated to desk duty long ago with those grades!

 

Now that this appears to be a bug ( @BIGNEWY please confirm this is a known defect and is being looked into for resolution), I stopped uploading traps.  

 

In an effort to counter the tendency of the Flight Model to lower AOA at touchdown, today I tried "gaming" the system by flying an extremely slow approach keeping the E-bracket low at about 9° AOA. (Not a recommended technique at all)

 

image.png

 

Talk about some AFU approaches!  Argh ... 😠

 

I don't want to break the good habits that I've developed with the trainer and get into nasty techniques to overcome a product defect.

 

Candidly, I never thought I'd EVER be in a place of proficiency where I'd even care about this kind of bug.  There was once a time, not long ago, where my goal was simply to arrest on the carrier - period!  Maybe I should be happy with my progression and just stop caring about LSO grades.  Unfortunately, I'm not wired that way;  I want to better myself and my technique.  

 

ED - love you guys!  I really do.  You've made my childhood dreams of becoming a Naval Aviator as close to coming true as possible.  Any assistance with the FM under these conditions is very much appreciated.

 

Thanks.

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MM

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ASUS P9X79 | i7 3930K | 16GB DDR3 | Nvidia Geforce GTX780 | Win7 64 | HOTAS Thrustmaster T.16000M & TWCS

Yeah, I need a serious upgrade :)

 

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You're already using Bankler's Case 1 trainer which I think is the best... if you want traditional LSO grades, you might look into the Moose Airboss script as well, which contains its own LSO scoring system that does not get as picky with the eased gun and 3pts grades, and can keep a trap loogbook for you.  It's a bit fiddly to set up, but works pretty well. 

 

I agree with you though, I'd really love to see this idiosyncracy in the Hornet fixed.  It's a small thing in the great scheme and I think the flight model feels good otherwise (I've certainly never flown a Hornet, but it feels like a jet for the most part), but this pitch down just before landing is bizarre, and it unfortunately makes it difficult to fly carrier passes with somewhat realistic techniques and grading, which is frustrating for a naval aircraft. 

 

My bug report / question is here:

 

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  • Mistermann changed the title to Continued Cut Pass grades from LSO
  • 4 weeks later...

I can confirm the pull down. It would be great to see this issue resolved.

 

On another note, it is possible to "game the system" by quickly pulling back on the stick, just prior to touch-down. Do not confuse this with flaring. Just a slight pull will be enough, on the last fraction of a second prior to the gears touching the deck.

 

However, if you do not want to "game the system", just disregard the 3PTS grade.

 

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20 hours ago, Mr. Crow said:

I can confirm the pull down. It would be great to see this issue resolved.

 

On another note, it is possible to "game the system" by quickly pulling back on the stick, just prior to touch-down. Do not confuse this with flaring. Just a slight pull will be enough, on the last fraction of a second prior to the gears touching the deck.

 

However, if you do not want to "game the system", just disregard the 3PTS grade.

 

 

Here is an example of the maneuver mentioned. It is somewhat subtle, and one has to pay attention to the stabilators just prior to touch-down.

 

F-18C Carrier Landing.trk

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