correct as is Bug? Freya azimuth problem

[Tarres]

Setting a Freya with a PU Maschinen33 facing north In Normandy, near the coastline so no obstructions in LOS. Heading 0.

Range it´s OK, around 160km for an airplane traveling at 6000m/18000ft (B17G).

Only detects airplanes in the 340-20 aziumth sector. No rotation.

Seems that detection it´s on a fixed cone of around 35/40 degrees linked to the heading of the object.

 

Wurzbug: seems to work 360º, with coorect range but without any animation.

KduG40 fire direction works as intended with proper range and animation.

 

Attached test files.

Freya test.miz Freya and Wurzbung test.miz

[Tarres]

Forget to add that GCI always respond "Clean" when player request picture.

[xvii-Dietrich]

I have been doing some experiments with this. I've noticed few things.

 

1.  The Würzburg-Riese seems to have its azimuth off by 90 degrees. For example, if you set both Würzburg-Riese and Freya to heading=0, the Freya points north, but the Würzburg-Riese points west.

 

2.  In the past, the Freya used to rotate. Now it does not. Are you also seeing this? Or have you found a way to make either of them rotate?

 

3. The Würzburg-Riese should also be able to track in elevation angle. I cannot find any way to change this (whether statically setting it, or dynamically).

[Tarres]

Yes.

All of yours points are correct.

 

I suspect that the lack of rotation is one of the points related to the "azimuth bug" in the Freya.

The Würzbug doesn´t rotate BUT I  see a clean 360º picture in the F10 with fog of war enabled.

 

Setting an old caped EWR from LOMAC, the 55G6, it provides indications when you request picture.

 

I suspect that the code for the German EWR are WIP, and for the Fire direction Wurzbug it´s for now only an EWR.

 

We´ve got correct search ranges in the WW2 EWR (azimuth bug aside) but lack of "information as requested by the player", In the "modern" EWR, we´ve got caped search and detection ranges but provides information when you request it.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Tarres

[Tarres]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:11 AM, xvii-Dietrich said:

1.  The Würzburg-Riese seems to have its azimuth off by 90 degrees. For example, if you set both Würzburg-Riese and Freya to heading=0, the Freya points north, but the Würzburg-Riese points west.

 

This point seems solved in the 05/20/21 patch.

[Tarres]

Update:

.- using a modern EWR works as intended for blue or red colaitions. Only bug is the information given to the german planes in Imperial. This is related to the WIP "German class" in the sounds lua file.

.- using a german EWR (FREYA, with the rotation bug take into account) or EWR/FC (Wurzbug), answer is always: "CLEAN".

 

Workarund for missions: use modern EWR. Due to the bug of the max range (120km instead of 400km) in the modern EWR, there is no Uber-EWR problem if you use the modern EWR  for now.

[xvii-Dietrich]

The German radars were featured by @BIGNEWYin the so-called Sunday Supplement ( https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/272812-sunday-supplement/ ) .

 

What is not clear from that is whether these radars will be functional units or whether they will remain as just statics (i.e. targets for Allied aircraft). At the moment, as far as I can tell, they are lacking scanning ability. There doesn't seem to be any way to change their pointing direction.

 

 

[Tarres]

In the screenshots both radars are in “default/fixed position”.

Both have arguments and implemented animations but for now both are “static”, only difference is that Wurzbug seems to work in full 360º for the IA planes as a EWR, or as a 360º EWR (ranges seem ok) for a Tactical Commander in F10.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Tarres

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all

 

Freya did not rotate automatically in real life it had to be turned by hand, the team removed the automatic rotation. 

[Tarres]

Thanks!
So the bug is only the “always clean” answer and the Wurzburg “no animation and lack of Fire Control ability”.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Tarres

[xvii-Dietrich]

5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Freya did not rotate automatically in real life it had to be turned by hand, the team removed the automatic rotation. 

 

Okay, but then how can we turn these radars in our missions?

Would it be possible to control them via Lua somehow? (That would be really ideal, as we could then have a separate radar application/utility... e.g. like LotATC, but with actual positional radar control).

[Mogster]

Yes. It seems the instrument could turn but the turning was just manual by a group of squaddies. It’s the same result, no?

[Tarres]

I´m testing a template with the real positions and number of radars (FReya and Wurzbug). They cover the Normandy map with fixed azimuth.  

[xvii-Dietrich]

1 hour ago, Tarres said:

I´m testing a template with the real positions and number of radars (FReya and Wurzbug). They cover the Normandy map with fixed azimuth.  

 

Ah, cool. That's definitely a good way to approach it for the time being.

 

However, these antennas should be movable in azimuth (and in the case of the Wurzburg) in elevation too. For a 7.5mØ antenna at 560 MHz, the beam pattern is only 5 degrees or so (possible a bit more due to the Quirl system.) By steering the antenna (0-360 deg Az, 0-90 El) the sky can be scanned for aircraft. These should not be fixed objects (unless ED's actual intention is only to make targets for their Allied aircraft set). Hopefully in the next Sunday Supplement, @BIGNEWY can expound on how we can control these radars from a DCS-perspective, or at least indicate what ED's plans are so we can incorporate them into our missions.

 

Returning to your project though, if you haven't found it already, I can recommend these sites for information about the placement of German radars during WW2 for the Normandy map region.

https://www.geschichtsspuren.de/datenbanken/luftnachrichten-datenbank.html

https://www.gyges.dk/the_luftnachrichten_dienst.htm

[Tarres]

Thanks!

 

Yes the wurzbug is more a Fire Control radar.

[Retnek]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:46 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi all

 

Freya did not rotate automatically in real life it had to be turned by hand, the team removed the automatic rotation. 

That's a strange interpretation of the capability of the Freya-radar-set plus crew. Freya has been the the most abundant search-radar for Luftwaffe and German Navy. There have been special procedures with Freya-radars tracking single targets for ground-controllers directing night-fighters ("AN-Verfahren").

  But the vast majority of Freya-operations were early-warning searches to provide data for early-warning and/or pre-directing the "Würzburg"-targeting radars . Freya always had a 360 degree search-capability. It was the job of the Freya-crew to "scan" a given sector as good as possible. Sometimes 360 degree, sometimes just a pre-ordered sector. In 1943 three "standard"-Freya-radars were combined into a form of 360-degree-early-warning-center ("Igel-Stellungen") where a single Freya-device was responsible for a 120-degree-sector.

  I'd suggest to take this 120-degree sector as a strong hint on the "reliable-surveillance-capability" of one Freya-device. Hopefully the developers find a way to extend the detection time if a single Freya-radar is given  a larger sector to survey. Maybe a higher probability to loose targets. Another problem to solve would be the upper limit of single targets or target-groups (i.a. formations) the crew of one Freya-radar was able to resolve. How many targets they were to follow with some dependability. What about the difference between green and experienced crews?

  Some Freya-Radars ("Dreh-Freya", late 1943) were equipped with a screen for 360-degree-representation of the air-situation. In 1944 for early-warning the Freya-radar played a secondary role compared to it's "larger silblings" like "Wassermann" and "Mammut". Until 1945 hundreds of Freya-devices were present in nearly all radar-sites fully integrated into the early-warning- and fighter-guidance-services of the Luftwaffe.

[stuart666]

Been looking into making a layout of projected German defences in Northern France, as I did for the Normandy map, and ive noticed that most radar sites had more than one Freya. So im guessing, depending on how many they had operational at one time, they would move the radar to cover a 120 degree slice of sky. Two of them would be able to cover something like 240 degrees, more than enough to cover a particular slice of sky, particularly considering how many they seem to have had on the Atlantic wall.

 

Im not sure classing Wurzburg Reise as a fire control radar is right. Reise seems to have been used in conjunction with Freya to discover height, and be used for nightfighter intercepts. The fire control one I most seem to identify with 88mm gun battery's would be the smaller Wurzburg D. We badly need one of these among the assets if at all possible ED, hint hint.