Getting prepared for the Hind - Hip or Black Shark?

[sirrah]

This must have been asked before, but I can't seem to find it..

 

Which of the two existing Russian helo modules would be most useful to get myself prepared for the Hind? The Ka-50 or the Mi-8?

 

I can imagine that the BS would come closest to its weapon capabilities and maybe flight characteristics.

But for the rest part (switch terminology and such), I'd expect the Hip would be a better training platform for the Hind, both being designed by Mil.

 

I own both modules and I'm pretty familiar with the BS systems. Hip not so much (never really got to it).

 

Would you advise me to start learning the Hip (would that help me at all in the Hind), or should I just wait for the Hind to arrive?

 

(As much as I like the Mi-8's appearance, I don't think I'll fly it much after the Hind is released)

[Morrov]

Mi-8 for sure, Mi-24 was kinda based on the Hip. Same engines, a lot of the same systems (not all of course), cockpits are much more similar between the HIp and the Hind too (at least compared to the BS).

 

Neither will feel quite the same as the Hind, the Hip is quite "fat", the Shark doesn't have a tail rotor and has a ton of computers helping you (so does the Hind, but not to such a degree), but the Hip should be much closer.

Weapon systems are quite unique in the Hind, mainly the Raduga-Sh, which is an optical system, like a proper periscope in the front that the operator has to point at the enemy until the missile hits. The commander in the back has the same sight that we have in the Su-25 (non T variant).

 

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, Morrov said:

Mi-8 for sure, Mi-24 was kinda based on the Hip. Same engines, a lot of the same systems (not all of course), cockpits are much more similar between the HIp and the Hind too (at least compared to the BS).

 

Neither will feel quite the same as the Hind, the Hip is quite "fat", the Shark doesn't have a tail rotor and has a ton of computers helping you (so does the Hind, but not to such a degree), but the Hip should be much closer.

Weapon systems are quite unique in the Hind, mainly the Raduga-Sh, which is an optical system, like a proper periscope in the front that the operator has to point at the enemy until the missile hits. The commander in the back has the same sight that we have in the Su-25 (non T variant).

 

Tnx @Morrov, I kinda expected this answer.

I start investing time then in the Hip

 

("Investing"... as if I'm talking about something unenjoyable )

[Northstar98]

As with what Morrov said - there's much more commonality with the Mi-8 than the Ka-50.

[flo57100]

Mi-8 ! Instruments are the same, and, very important, doppler navigation system is exactly the same 

[PHMAC]

8 hours ago, sirrah said:

I start investing time then in the Hip

I can’t recommend this channel enough....Just like you a wanted to learn the MI-8 to prepare myself for the Hind. The YouTube tutorials made by vsTerminus are amazing and teaches you almost everything you need to know.

[pepin1234]

15 hours ago, sirrah said:

This must have been asked before, but I can't seem to find it..

 

Which of the two existing Russian helo modules would be most useful to get myself prepared for the Hind? The Ka-50 or the Mi-8?

 

I can imagine that the BS would come closest to its weapon capabilities and maybe flight characteristics.

But for the rest part (switch terminology and such), I'd expect the Hip would be a better training platform for the Hind, both being designed by Mil.

 

I own both modules and I'm pretty familiar with the BS systems. Hip not so much (never really got to it).

 

Would you advise me to start learning the Hip (would that help me at all in the Hind), or should I just wait for the Hind to arrive?

 

(As much as I like the Mi-8's appearance, I don't think I'll fly it much after the Hind is released)

 

Mi-8 for navigation and Ka-50 for unguided weapons (Mi-8 behave worse than Mi-24 with unguided weapons, need some correctios not applied in Mi-24)

[S. Low]

Probably the Huey fully loaded and fat

[Marklar]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:21 PM, sirrah said:

I start investing time then in the Hip

 

Just don't waste your time with learning swing loading. It's broken since around December.

[Britchot]

I just flew a sling load mission in the Oilfield campaign two weeks ago, I kept the helo around 150km/h and it was fine.  This was a SP mission, which I've heard MP is quite erratic. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Britchot

[Morrov]

3 hours ago, Marklar said:

 

Just don't waste your time with learning swing loading. It's broken since around December.

 

Seems to work fine in SP on my end, haven't tried in MP though

[sirrah]

Thanks guys 

 

Did a bit of training today and I'm at the point now where I can start her up and operate the doppler radar 

 

(Flipping all these overhead switches is an absolute joy with PointCTRL)

[Sceptre]

I will have to disagree. Flying the shark with the gun fixed will give you a better representation of flying the hind. It's faster than the hip and doesn't require pedal input when flying fast to keep straight.

 

Flying the Mi8 is great for learning switchology and cockpit/instrument familiarity of the hind but that's about it

[Snappy]

21 hours ago, Sceptre said:

I will have to disagree. Flying the shark with the gun fixed will give you a better representation of flying the hind. It's faster than the hip and doesn't require pedal input when flying fast to keep straight.

 

Flying the Mi8 is great for learning switchology and cockpit/instrument familiarity of the hind but that's about it

Neither does the Mi-8 require pedal input when flying (relatively) fast. Once you hit 200kph you can completely remove anti torque input, unless you really pull the collective up. 

I really don't see much communality between the Black Shark and the Hind, besides both being attack helicopters

 

Edit : To make this a bit more precise,  if you set  blade pitch angle to 7 degrees, this works nicely on my side.You can chug along at 200kph with zero anti  torque input.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Snappy

[Marklar]

4 hours ago, Morrov said:

Seems to work fine in SP on my end, haven't tried in MP though

 

You can hook loads in Hip but they have 0kg weight, don't affect heli performance and swing like crazy even in hover. 

[VampireNZ]

On 5/11/2021 at 8:47 AM, Sceptre said:

I will have to disagree. Flying the shark with the gun fixed will give you a better representation of flying the hind. It's faster than the hip and doesn't require pedal input when flying fast to keep straight.

 

Flying the Mi8 is great for learning switchology and cockpit/instrument familiarity of the hind but that's about it

 

Tis funny - I actually clicked this link to see if anyone suggested the Shark over the Hip for learning the Hind (given it is probably as far away from the Hind as possible without just going to a fixed wing aircraft lol) - and BAM here we go, there is always one .

 

To answer the OP - the Hip is mighty close to the Hind in so far as the instruments and systems you interact with in the cockpit while flying, the pedal input while flying is a rather interesting addition, as generally you shouldn't need any pedal input while flying S&L in any chopper thanks to the aerodynamic design/rotor offset etc. anyway. You sometimes need a little if you are pretty heavy, but remember the Hip doesn't fly S&L with a centred ball. (Interestingly I would say the Shark is a bad representation when related to Hip/Hind as you use far more pedal when turning and would introduce bad habits for those two).

Speed is meh - the Shark is a bit faster but big whoop, hardly an earth-shattering difference that will blow your mind when you get in the even faster Hind.

As far as the gun on the Shark, the Hip also has fixed guns that shoot stuff in front of you, and don't gimble 'yes you can lock the Shark cannon as well'. Again not a big deal that would make you want to get time up in the Shark, as the Hind also has a ranging gun sight that will make shooting much easier than the Hip anyway. So just work on your range estimation using the fixed sight in the Hip and keeping the chopper steady on run-in and you will be set once in the Hind.

 

Also lets not forget about the actual 'flying' and general aircraft handling like TO/Hover and Landing (both from hover and rolling) - which will be much closer to the Hip than the Shark (so not just good for switchology!). Get comfortable using the great doppler nav system also, I actually made a mod that changed colouring of the lettering of Left/Right of course indications to Red/Green to see them easier from pilots seat in VR - but won't need that in the Hind!   In any case I see you are putting in the hours in the Hip so you are GTG.

 

SPOILER: Yes the Hind can hover.

[Sceptre]

2 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

 

Tis funny - I actually clicked this link to see if anyone suggested the Shark over the Hip for learning the Hind (given it is probably as far away from the Hind as possible without just going to a fixed wing aircraft lol) - and BAM here we go, there is always one .

 

it depends what you want to practice before the hind comes. the hip is better if you want to learn the instruments and just learn to fly. but if you have mastered that already, the shark is a better choice for practicing the combat tactics of the hind. plus I never said anywhere the hind can't hover, I don't know why that myth keeps getting brought up 

[Dragon1-1]

I'd say that the Shark has a vastly different approach to combat tactics than the Hind. You could approximate it by using the gun in boresight mode and carrying rockets, but even then, Hind will have Petrovich to significantly shake things up with regards to combat. Ka-50 is a completely different helo, for doing completely different things. So is the Hip, but at least that one is closed when it comes to avionics.

[sirrah]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:50 PM, VampireNZ said:

 

Tis funny - I actually clicked this link to see if anyone suggested the Shark over the Hip for learning the Hind (given it is probably as far away from the Hind as possible without just going to a fixed wing aircraft lol) - and BAM here we go, there is always one .

 

To answer the OP - the Hip is mighty close to the Hind in so far as the instruments and systems you interact with in the cockpit while flying, the pedal input while flying is a rather interesting addition, as generally you shouldn't need any pedal input while flying S&L in any chopper thanks to the aerodynamic design/rotor offset etc. anyway. You sometimes need a little if you are pretty heavy, but remember the Hip doesn't fly S&L with a centred ball. (Interestingly I would say the Shark is a bad representation when related to Hip/Hind as you use far more pedal when turning and would introduce bad habits for those two).

Speed is meh - the Shark is a bit faster but big whoop, hardly an earth-shattering difference that will blow your mind when you get in the even faster Hind.

As far as the gun on the Shark, the Hip also has fixed guns that shoot stuff in front of you, and don't gimble 'yes you can lock the Shark cannon as well'. Again not a big deal that would make you want to get time up in the Shark, as the Hind also has a ranging gun sight that will make shooting much easier than the Hip anyway. So just work on your range estimation using the fixed sight in the Hip and keeping the chopper steady on run-in and you will be set once in the Hind.

 

Also lets not forget about the actual 'flying' and general aircraft handling like TO/Hover and Landing (both from hover and rolling) - which will be much closer to the Hip than the Shark (so not just good for switchology!). Get comfortable using the great doppler nav system also, I actually made a mod that changed colouring of the lettering of Left/Right of course indications to Red/Green to see them easier from pilots seat in VR - but won't need that in the Hind!   In any case I see you are putting in the hours in the Hip so you are GTG.

 

SPOILER: Yes the Hind can hover.

About that doppler system:

 

In order to set it right now, I use the F10 map and measuring tool, but obviously it gives me the distance in nm.

 

I now multiply that by 2 to get close to km's (I know its 1.8, but I'm not that great with mental arithmetic )

 

Is there another way to get to km's?

[molevitch]

45 minutes ago, sirrah said:

About that doppler system:

 

In order to set it right now, I use the F10 map and measuring tool, but obviously it gives me the distance in nm.

 

I now multiply that by 2 to get close to km's (I know its 1.8, but I'm not that great with mental arithmetic )

 

Is there another way to get to km's?

Use your settings in the main config screens. Choose between km and nm

[lmp]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:50 PM, VampireNZ said:

the Hind also has a ranging gun sight that will make shooting much easier than the Hip anyway.

 

Yes and no. The gunsight is able to compute windage and elevation corrections but the helicopter doesn't have a (laser or radio) range finder. The range for the gunsight is provided either as a function of altitude AGL or is entered manually by the pilot commander. The first approach works in flat terrain. In the mountains, you will need to estimate range yourself. It'll still be easier than in the Mi-8 since you won't have to worry about your speed and dive angle, but range estimation will be on you.

[VampireNZ]

3 hours ago, lmp said:

 

Yes and no. The gunsight is able to compute windage and elevation corrections but the helicopter doesn't have a (laser or radio) range finder. The range for the gunsight is provided either as a function of altitude AGL or is entered manually by the pilot commander. The first approach works in flat terrain. In the mountains, you will need to estimate range yourself. It'll still be easier than in the Mi-8 since you won't have to worry about your speed and dive angle, but range estimation will be on you.

 

Interesting, I don't believe I ever said it had a laser rangefinder?

The AVT (auto) mode calculates distance based on helicopter angle and AGL by way of trigonometry in the ADSVU and sends info to gunsight as to where projectile will impact ground given current parameters, but yes you are correct - of limited use in mountains, just use the usual sighting burst.

Still - any ranging, if only estimate, is better than none and give you a 'cue' to work from for better accuracy.

[lmp]

You didn't say it had a rangefinder. I wasn't trying to contradict you, but to expand on what you said. Employing unguided weapons will be easier in the Hind than it is in the Hip but the ability to estimate range which is pretty mandatory in the Hip to be effective will still be needed in the Hind in certain environments. I think this is a relevant bit of information to anyone deciding which of the existing helos to choose to prepare for the Hind release.

[Zeagle]

I refuse to use NATO names for these birds...lol 

 

Anyway, I have been flying the Mi-8 to prepare for the crocodile

[sirrah]

So, I've been flying the Mi-8 a lot lately and fell in love with it  

 

One advise, that I see mentioned a lot here, is to use the Mi-8 rockets to get a general feel of their ballistics. So I thought, just for the purpose of training, I'd set weapons to unlimited and fly the quick action mission: Target practice in the Persian Gulf

 

But even though I set weapons to unlimited, my rockets still get depleted.

I even manually altered this training mission and set unlimited weapons to forced on, but still I run out of rockets.

 

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong? (this is the first time I use the unlimited ammo cheat, so I'm unfamiliar with it)

 

 

 

Edit:

Nevermind, just found out it was already reported (and acknowledged) as a bug

Edited May 17, 2021 by sirrah