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Is there a bug with the MK 82 SnakeEye?


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Hi guys,

 

I commonly blow myself out to bit with the Mk-82 Snakeeye. I was having the issue with the F-5, but now I still have the same issue with the F-16.

 

Check this out. I carry 12 bombs (3 per stack on 4 hardpoints).

 

I set:

Ripple : 12 (to drop them all)

Mode: Single

Spacing 20 feet

 

I set my speed to +-400 knots and my AGL is about 500-600 feet.

 

I commonly blow on the spot, as soon as I release the bomb. So it is not the fragmentation from the bomb impact on the ground.

 

I notice that the issue is not as common if I fly slower in the 300-350 knots range.

 

Am I missing something. I am pretty sure it is a bug. No way the air force would let pilots use that armament if it would be that easy to trigger the bombs at the release time.

 

Test it out and let me know your conclusion. It's early to say but I think that the speed at which your drop the bomb seems to be directly related to that thing.

 

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Does it happen with larger ripple settings? Pair and a ripple of 40 gives you the same footprint. I usually use 100.

Didn't blow up yet, but also did not test it in 2.7 yet. 

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could it be that the bombs collide mid-air and explode? 


Edited by Falconeer
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7 hours ago, TobiasA said:

Does it happen with larger ripple settings? Pair and a ripple of 40 gives you the same footprint. I usually use 100.

Didn't blow up yet, but also did not test it in 2.7 yet. 

 

I will test this out. I am still on 2.6 (stable branch)

 

2 hours ago, Falconeer said:

could it be that the bombs collide mid-air and explode? 

 

 

This is exactly what I think is happening. This is the reason why I think that there is a bug. You could in theory drop all bomb at the same time, no reason for these to be triggered. If it would be like that in real life, they would never use such a dangerous weapon.

 

1 hour ago, Rubberduck85 said:

Are you pushing the stick forward while releasing the bombs?

Sent from my MI 10 Lite 5G using Tapatalk
 

 

No I am very careful with this. I fly level or in very gentle altitude increase.

 

If you guys feel like bombing trucks, drop few ones in the mission editor and test it out. It is quite easy to reproduce. But again, seems like if I fly at less than 400 knots, I will not get the issue as  much. But as you know, I would rather have a very fast pass over the target area.

 


Edited by Frag
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13 hours ago, Falconeer said:

could it be that the bombs collide mid-air and explode? 

 

I believe (but am not 100% sure) the fuzes are not activated until a predetermined time delay after separation, which is initiated by a lanyard that pulls a safety pin out of the bomb on release from the pylon. If they are activating the fuze instantly at separation that is probably an incorrect model. 

 

Edit: A little more info: 

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/129576.aspx

 

Edit 2: Manufacturer's info pamphlet:

https://www.kaman.com/sites/default/files/FMU-139DataSheet2017-PRINT-PAGES.pdf


Edited by Machalot

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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On 4/27/2021 at 5:08 AM, Frag said:

...

 

Am I missing something. I am pretty sure it is a bug. No way the air force would let pilots use that armament if it would be that easy to trigger the bombs at the release time.

 

Test it out and let me know your conclusion. It's early to say but I think that the speed at which your drop the bomb seems to be directly related to that thing.

 

 

Your Bombs collide, explode and in doing so frag (User Name checks out here 🙂 ) your Plane.

And there are people that wish for greater Splash Damage. Or Airburst Fuzes - can you believe it?

 

You can avoid that if you consider to either up your spacing - 75Ft and more works well - or bring just 2 TER´s on the outer Pylon.

 

Bug or Feature?

That greatly depends on your point of view. Arming delay is not simulated by ED, thus the Fanbois will tell you that this is a missing feature at best. Move to "Wishlist" please.

Then again - Bombs colliding does happen in RL as does premature Explosion; so it´s actually added realism 😉

 

You decide.

52d_Sig_Pic2.png

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1 hour ago, wraith70 said:

Could you post a track so we can see this happening?

 

Sure. In this clip I was at 580 knots at release. But I have commonly this at any speed over 400 knots. I guess the spacing is the problem as =52d=skip reported. But if is the case, this is clearly a bug.

 

Here is the track attached...

Deadly Snakeeyes.trk

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16 hours ago, Machalot said:

I believe (but am not 100% sure) the fuzes are not activated until a predetermined time delay after separation, which is initiated by a lanyard that pulls a safety pin out of the bomb on release from the pylon. If they are activating the fuze instantly at separation that is probably an incorrect model. 

 

Edit: A little more info: 

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/129576.aspx

 

Edit 2: Manufacturer's info pamphlet:

https://www.kaman.com/sites/default/files/FMU-139DataSheet2017-PRINT-PAGES.pdf

 

I know how those fuses work 😊 it's been my work for years ( F16 weapons specialist)

 

The fuse which should be installed in those bombs are the M904 nose fuses. They indeed need some time to arm, due to the rotation speed needed for the governor, inside the fuse. A spinning vane in front of the fuse is responsible for this rotation speed. If for what reason the speed is not met, than the fuse won't arm and the bomb won't explode

 


Edited by Falconeer
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7 hours ago, Falconeer said:

I know how those fuses work 😊 it's been my work for years ( F16 weapons specialist)

 

The fuse which should be installed in those bombs are the M904 nose fuses. They indeed need some time to arm, due to the rotation speed needed for the governor, inside the fuse. A spinning vane in front of the fuse is responsible for this rotation speed. If for what reason the speed is not met, than the fuse won't arm and the bomb won't explode

 

 

Based on your background is the OP's loadout an authorized loadout?  Could they be bumping into each other on release and into the jet?

 

Edit:

Just read another thread about the AIM-120's desyncing on launch and blowing the wings off.  I wonder if this could be happening with the Mk-82's.  Just a thought.


Edited by Sarge55
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Here are 3 pics of one of the wing pylons on my F-100 at Phan Rang AB in South Vietnam in 1970.  This shows the wires through the nose fuses on both a 500 & 750-lb high-drag bomb.

 

The other end of the wire is connected to the wing pylon and that wire stayed connected to the pylon after release.  On RTB from a strike mission, each flight member would always slide under his wingman's plane to make sure all the wires were still attached to the pylons.  If a wire was missing, chances were that you released a dud that did not arm.

 

Once the bomb was released, the wire was pulled free of the nose spinner fuse.  I don't remember what time interval we used for the bomb to become armed once it was released.  We also had tail fuses and the option to select "Nose" or "Nose/Tail".  If I recall, we always used "Nose/Tail" so we had a backup fuse in case one failed.

 

 

Arming 500-Lb HD Bomb, F-100, Phan Rang AB, South Vietnam, 1970.jpg

Armed 750-Lb HD Bomb, Side View, F-100 Bomb Rack, Phan Rang AB, South Vietnam, 1970.jpg

Armed 750-Lb Bomb, Front View, F-100 Bomb Rack, Phan Rang AB, South Vietnam, 1970.jpg

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50 minutes ago, Sarge55 said:

Based on your background is the OP's loadout an authorized loadout?  Could they be bumping into each other on release and into the jet?

 

Edit:

Just read another thread about the AIM-120's desyncing on launch and blowing the wings off.  I wonder if this could be happening with the Mk-82's.  Just a thought.

 

Yes you can mount TER's on stations 4 and 6..... but i have never loaded them in that configuration. Also, in combat sorties, F16's always carry 2 bags of fuel.

 

I never heard of bombs hitting each other, but we had at least 1 aircraft who got struck by one of its own bombs, due to a failing component in a bomb rack.

F/A18C, F-16C, Mirage 2000C, JF-14, F-14B Tomcat, Flaming Cliffs 3, Black Shark 2, SU27, AJS37 Viggen, Persian Gulf, Syria

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Thanks Falconeer.  12 Mk-82's seemed a bit overkill.

 

The desync issue is a bug that has popped up in 2.7, I was just speculating it may also be affecting the bombs.

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On 4/28/2021 at 8:12 PM, Sarge55 said:

Thanks Falconeer.  12 Mk-82's seemed a bit overkill.

 

The desync issue is a bug that has popped up in 2.7, I was just speculating it may also be affecting the bombs.

 

I am using the stable branch (2.5.6). The track I provided is in that release. 2.7 is not related to that specific issue at least.

 

Anyone checked the track? I opened a bug but no feedback there.

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