Forest Fires, Working "Bambi-buckets" and a CL 415 Super scooper !

[sirrah]

As much as I would love to see any waterplane, including and especially the CL 415, they would all require water physics improvement first. Which is probably not easy.

 

A water bucket (or internal water tank) for helo's might be low hanging fruit though.

That'd be awesome!

[3WA]

My thing is, I think ED does so much better work on flight physics than those "other" sims.  So I'm happy to see any aircraft come into DCS.  Yes, DCS has some things lacking, but I've flown in nearly every sim there is, and DCS so far seems to have the best physics.  Probably why it takes them so long to make an aircraft.

[rkk01]

I don’t know what’s not to like...

 

The usual suspects explaining what the C in DCS stand for is as tiring as usual, but doesn’t really apply here...

 

Think of it another way - it could be a route in to some interesting military aircraft and low level ops: C-130, UH-60, S-64/CF-54, PBY, plus a lot more

 

[Tippis]

56 minutes ago, sirrah said:

As much as I would love to see any waterplane, including and especially the CL 415, they would all require water physics improvement first. Which is probably not easy.

 

A water bucket (or internal water tank) for helo's might be low hanging fruit though.

Pun intended?  

 

A water bucket should indeed be pretty easy to create — it's effectively just another liftable object, and the two things that would set it apart is that it can vary in weight and that there needs to be a water detection feature attached to it. The former can kind of be done with scripting already, but it would affect the helo rather than the bucket, which obviously puts the pendulum mass in the wrong place; the latter has to exist in some form, or vehicles wouldn't be able to drive into water and explode.

 

The real question is what sea physics would actually entail. At the moment, it just seems to be sitting the extreme end of “tarmac -> packed ground -> loose ground -> water” in terms of exactly how much aircraft get stuck and/or explode when they come into contact with it. Water planes would obviously have to half-reverse that relationship, and the drag would have to be set properly (especially with the scoop open)… but aside from that? Bobbing in the waves and the ability to crash into specific crests if you're going too fast and/or in the wrong direction? Bits of it are in already, so it might not be quite as huge an issue as it firsts seems since a decent amount of parts are already in place.

[Northstar98]

8 hours ago, Tippis said:

...Bobbing in the waves and the ability to crash into specific crests if you're going too fast and/or in the wrong direction? Bits of it are in already, so it might not be quite as huge an issue as it firsts seems since a decent amount of parts are already in place.

 

This is the main issue for me as far as physics are concerned - at the moment stuff doesn't actually interact with the water properly - there's no buoyancy model (not sure how to describe it). 

 

I haven't done much testing  in 2.7, but from what I gather from testing it previously is that the 'bobbing' is completely random, with a magnitude dependent on wind speed (and it only does pitching and rolling, I'm not sure it does translations).

 

With larger vessels this isn't as noticeable (unless you really make massive waves), but with smaller vessels, it can look pretty wrong - with motions and waves not matching up.

 

That and we don't have any sinking mechanics (which might be useful even for amphibious aircraft like the cl-415), when stuff sinks it just follows a pre-scripted motion - meaning they'll sink the same way in the same time, every single time (the only thing in 2.7 is that sunken ships are more persistent - they'll sink to the sea floor and stay there, previously they disappeared with a large splash). 

 

Something akin to Cold Waters for example would be desirable here.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Northstar98

[CyclicNL]

Hi!

 

Just wanted to add my vote to this, I for one am flying DCS and helo's due to the fantastic flight model of the UH1, and am now about 150 hours into DCS and have not fired a single gun yet.

Slicks all the way!

I would love to see expended capabilities on firefighting, CSAR, etc.

The SAR multiplayer server is a ton of fun, and they've done a pretty decent job, but it definitely has its limits.

 

anyways, +10000000 on this

[Evoman]

On 4/24/2021 at 1:04 PM, Northstar98 said:

I'm just going to throw these in here, just in case we're worried about the acronym...

 

 

 

 

Hopefully we can get a Fire Hawk variant whenever the Black Hawk comes to DCS. Or there could be a possibility of getting the Fire Hawk first if Cal Fire contracts ED to make them one for simulator training. Anyone know someone over at Cal Fire? jaja

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Evoman

[Hammer1-1]

5 hours ago, CyclicNL said:

Hi!

 

Just wanted to add my vote to this, I for one am flying DCS and helo's due to the fantastic flight model of the UH1, and am now about 150 hours into DCS and have not fired a single gun yet.

Slicks all the way!

I would love to see expended capabilities on firefighting, CSAR, etc.

The SAR multiplayer server is a ton of fun, and they've done a pretty decent job, but it definitely has its limits.

 

anyways, +10000000 on this

you missing out on some serious fireworks

[Savagebliss]

Just amazed by the response to this post!!!   As a note, you can have bambie buckets as a cargo from one of the mods, and adjust the weight.  The most recent update also has a trigger to stop a "fire effect".  So in regards to making a mission with helo's and buckets, triggered actions could start some spot fires, then require the hover parameters to be met, cancel the smoke and fire effect.  Then trigger a white smoke effect (Steam).  The first page of this post shows an SAR server, they have a neat script.

 

Even without a 3rd party MOD for a CL-415, or special effects for the Helo's water buckets, I think there is an ability to make some cool scenarios.

 

I have some ability with the mission editor and it's triggers, but not with scripting.  There should be enough talent out there to get a MOD together, that brings these existing options together.

 

If I win the lottery, I will pay a 3rd party to make the CL-415 DCS quality.  Final note: To all those quoting "Combat Sim", somebody has to put out the fires that War causes.

[HC_Official]

If we could get the functionality I requested in this thread added, we could do some really cool stuff with dynamic fires in DCS fire fighting missions

 

 

[Evoman]

I just ran across this great video of the Air tractor Fire Boss firefighting variant that I had to post here. It can be outfitted with either landing gear or pontoons so that it can scoop up water from lakes.  Something like this would interest many new people world wide to DCS that other wise would not had giving DCS a consideration.

 

 

 

And to further backup the Air tractors Street cred it also has a military combat variant called the Archangel.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Evoman

[BIGNEWY]

off topic removed. 

 

Talk about Forest Fires, Working "Bambi-buckets" and a CL 415 Super scooper !

 

if its not about that move on please. 

[Tippis]

e: Removed because the post was deleted.

 

Anyway, this kind of expansion of the physics engine; improving the tasking list and usefulness of helos as a unit class; creating more world interaction and SFX would have pretty universally applicable uses. It's pretty easy to come up with ideas how, even outside of the purpose of fire-fighting, these capabilities could be used to spice up regular missions and campaigns.

 

I'm getting nasty Far Cry 2 flashbacks as far as… ehm… creative… uses you can have for triggered large-scale fires. Yum.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Tippis

[Hammer1-1]

THANK YOU!

[Chinaski]

A CL-415 would be awesome, and could bring more new customers into DCS.

 

But i wonder if it's technicaly possible and how difficult it would be to do a waterplane into DCS? 

Can someone from ED answer to this question?

[Evoman]

5 hours ago, Chinaski said:

A CL-415 would be awesome, and could bring more new customers into DCS.

 

But i wonder if it's technicaly possible and how difficult it would be to do a waterplane into DCS? 

Can someone from ED answer to this question?

Amphibian aircraft will eventually have to be added to DCS anyways as there were several iconic WWII aircraft like the Catalina and the Zero.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Evoman

[SharpeXB]

The answer to question #2 at 7:08 seems relevant to this topic, according to Simon with ED they have no interest in doing these types of aircraft ie “heavies”

 

[Evoman]

32 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

The answer to question #2 at 7:08 seems relevant to this topic, according to Simon with ED they have no interest in doing these types of aircraft ie “heavies”

 

The CL-415 would be considered more along the lines of a medium bomber aircraft like a B-25 Mitchell. It only has twin engines and pilot and co-pilot muticrew.

Heavies would be considered anything larger, with more engines and and a crew of 3+.

And besides this is more to get the attention of other would be 3rd parties that might take an interest in it. ED would just have to implement the necessary coding once such aircraft is announced for development.

[SharpeXB]

27 minutes ago, Evoman said:

And besides this is more to get the attention of other would be 3rd parties that might take an interest in it

I can’t imagine any 3rd party would make something like this for DCS. They could sell 10,000x more by making it for one of the big civy sims.

[Tippis]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I can’t imagine any 3rd party would make something like this for DCS. They could sell 10,000x more by making it for one of the big civy sims.

…and could therefore fairly trivially amortise the costs of such a module over a much larger customer base, which of course — as always — defeats the point you're trying to make. The fact that you can reuse the aero research and modelling work doesn't mean there's less reason to do it in DCS. It means there's more.

 

Incredulity is not a good argument. In fact, it's not an argument at all.

 

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The answer to question #2 at 7:08 seems relevant to this topic, according to Simon with ED they have no interest in doing these types of aircraft ie “heavies”

An answer to a question about a wholly unrelated plane category is not relevant to this topic. And BIGNEWY's answer indicates that there is some interest in doing this type of aircraft, ie. medium transport aircraft with a very specific (civilian) role and task associated with them.

[Harker]

As the game currently sits, you can hardly find a target after its been bombed.  There is just a lame “puff” then gone. If they currently can’t model bomb damage, how could they model a forrest fire currently?  
Better yet, if we can’t accurately use every feature in current modules, why should they waste the resources making Sim city DCS?  
To each their own I guess and it is a “wish list” so wish away. It’s as valid as any other wish, just a bit off target in my opinion, but again that’s me

This more or less reflects my feelings on the matter. It would require ED to allocate resources towards developing new core features, to enable fire spreading, firefighting etc and ED already has too much on its plate. A lot of the combat sim side of things need to be developed or improved before anything else happens, such as EW, better datalink, better sensor modeling, missile guidance etc.

As for 3rd parties, they can develop whatever they want, if people want it, they'll buy it, but it won't require ED to allocate resources towards anything.

[Chinaski]

Well, the only thing I would like, and i hope someone from ED will answer to this question, is to know if it's possible or not, and if it is, how difficult it would be to make an amphibious waterbomber like the CL 415 in DCS.

 

It would be really really fun and challenging and i'm sure that a lots of new customers who are not interrested at first by making simulated wars, would come into DCS. ( I can easily imagine the  effect it would have on the "2024 and beyond" DCS trailer  )

 

Moreover Caucasus seems to be a perfect map for it.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Chinaski

[Svsmokey]

I agree that it would be fun , but I doubt it will ever happen for several reasons , not least of which hydrodynamics .

Regarding how much effort that alone might take , has anyone successfully ditched a Yak-52 in DCS ? 

[Evoman]

20 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I can’t imagine any 3rd party would make something like this for DCS. They could sell 10,000x more by making it for one of the big civy sims.

If you were to really think about it, those big civy sims including the newest one that is all the rave right now that maps the earth is simply not able to implement any type of missions that interact with a ground target. So what would be the point of having an ariel fighter fighting tanker aircraft if all you could do with it in a civil sim is fly it around from airstrip to airstrip because the sim does not even have simulated bodies of water to interact with for water landings much less scoping up water. Hence the reason why DCS would be ideal for fire fighting combat missions for such an aircraft.

DCS could even test the waters in this market with minimal investment by just making a firefighting variant of the Heuy by simply equipping it with a water bucket and new skin.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Evoman said:

If you were to really think about it, those big civy sims including the newest one that is all the rave right now that maps the earth is simply not able to implement any type of missions that interact with a ground target. So what would be the point of having an ariel fighter fighting tanker aircraft if all you could do with it in a civil sim is fly it around from airstrip to airstrip because the sim does not even have simulated bodies of water to interact with for water landings much less scoping up water. Hence the reason why DCS would be ideal for fire fighting combat missions for such an aircraft.

DCS could even test the waters in this market with minimal investment by just making a firefighting variant of the Heuy by simply equipping it with a water bucket and new skin.

Another civy sim actually has this plane and it’s water drops.