Precision landings

[AlpineGTA]

I'm trying to put the thing on the thing but so far I'm failing miserably!  It's a challenge but I'm having fun practicing my hover.

 

[admiki]

Come from astern and keep that circle in middle window. I know you are afraid to hit ship with your blades, but that view will give you just enough space to land

[Quadg]

try it with a moving ship.

if the ship is doing 20 knts you will never lose translational lift.

the ship should be travelling into the wind.

[AlpineGTA]

Yes, trying a moving ship sounds like a good idea but I'd really like to master this. I think was makes it even harder is the transition from hovering over the water to over the ship and the change that makes in the down draft. 

 

Watching the replay back I was actually a lot closer than I realised, mere inches above the deck and nicely positioned. All I had to do was dump the collective and I would have been down but an excited twitch of cyclic swung me off and my rear wheel caught on the fence tipping me over.  

[unknown]

5 hours ago, AlpineGTA said:

rear wheel caught on the fence tipping me over.

You can contact the ship via the ATC menu and call inbound, they will lower the railing(fence) like they would in RL during flight operations.

 

Edit:

Quick and dirty example, sorry for the shaky view i was flying in VR(there you can't see the shaky view) and recorded the trackfile so there isn't only the small left eye view recorded. (video should be 1440p after YT processing)

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by unknown

[AlpineGTA]

Oh brilliant! I didn't even know you could do that. Nice video and nice landing. Thanks for the tip.

[admiki]

Don't just dump collective, it will throw you off. Get into a hover, gently lower collective just a smidge and let helicopter settle to the ground. Remember to keep flying all the way to the ground.

[AlpineGTA]

Yes, you're absolutely right of course. I was just being a bit flippant. What I meant was, If I'd only realised how well positioned and how near to the ground I was, I could have just lowered my collective and been down.  You live and learn.  

[Snappy]

On 4/20/2021 at 8:52 PM, unknown said:

You can contact the ship via the ATC menu and call inbound, they will lower the railing(fence) like they would in RL during flight operations.

 

Edit:

Quick and dirty example, sorry for the shaky view i was flying in VR(there you can't see the shaky view) and recorded the trackfile so there isn't only the small left eye view recorded. (video should be 1440p after YT processing)

 

 

Very nicely flown! Wish I was nearly as good with helicopters

Edited April 22, 2021 by Snappy

[unknown]

Thanks, flying in VR is a game changer for Helicopter flying and AirAirRefueling in Jets, it makes all these things so much easier.

 

[AlpineGTA]

I fly in VR too and it's absolutely brilliant for spatial awareness for hovering and landing. (It still doesn't mean I'm any good at it though!)  

[thrustvector]

dam nice flying there mate

[sirrah]

Continuing on this subject;

 

I've only recently picked up truly learning the Hip (in preparation for the Hind ) and I've also been trying "precision" landings.

Did I correctly notice that the Hip suffers a lot more from IGE (in ground effect) than the Huey?

 

When getting close to the ground, I have to quite drastically make adjustments to collective pitch to avoid being sort of "pushed" back up in the air. I have made a lot of Huey hours and never really noticed this effect. Well, definitely not to this extend.

 

[unknown]

8 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Continuing on this subject;

 

I've only recently picked up truly learning the Hip (in preparation for the Hind ) and I've also been trying "precision" landings.

Did I correctly notice that the Hip suffers a lot more from IGE (in ground effect) than the Huey?

 

When getting close to the ground, I have to quite drastically make adjustments to collective pitch to avoid being sort of "pushed" back up in the air. I have made a lot of Huey hours and never really noticed this effect. Well, definitely not to this extend.

 

That's becasue of the main rotor diameter, Huey ~14m vs Mi-8 ~21m.

[admiki]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:50 PM, sirrah said:

Continuing on this subject;

 

I've only recently picked up truly learning the Hip (in preparation for the Hind ) and I've also been trying "precision" landings.

Did I correctly notice that the Hip suffers a lot more from IGE (in ground effect) than the Huey?

 

When getting close to the ground, I have to quite drastically make adjustments to collective pitch to avoid being sort of "pushed" back up in the air. I have made a lot of Huey hours and never really noticed this effect. Well, definitely not to this extend.

 

Depending on weight, you can start descending from high hover (OGE) at about 1-2 m/s and it will settle just above ground without touching collective

[tusler]

I was very impressed with how you brought the nose up for decel and kept the vsi rock solid. I usually start climbing when I try that or when I bring the collective down (using warthog) I wind up descending way to fast. Bravo

Edited May 24, 2021 by tusler

[Gpruitt54]

I have a hard time getting this helicopter to slow down into a hoover without the machine instantly going into VRS.

[Ramsay]

1 hour ago, Gpruitt54 said:

I have a hard time getting this helicopter to slow down into a hoover without the machine instantly going into VRS.

 

Same, I find making note of the blade pitch angle req'ed for IGE hover helps

 

[cromhunt]

Hello:)please look at this little video of landing on Rigs.

The tip is the feeling you have when reducing speed to get close of a hover.

Some sound of vibrations advise you that you are close of power limits.

At each time you feel that stuff :
just push forward the stick a little.The vibration will desappear.

Continue until you touch down.

 

 

[admiki]

15 hours ago, Gpruitt54 said:

I have a hard time getting this helicopter to slow down into a hoover without the machine instantly going into VRS.

As you approach and start slowing down, your engines will spool down somewhat to maintain RRPM under current load. The catch is, as you go from 150 kph do to 100 to lessen your deceleration rate a bit and add just a bit of collective to spool up engines. as you get "the shakes" you should be holding altitude and start pulling collective. If you wait to get visual cues that you are sinking, you are too late. Once you get into hover, you can then start final descent. Don't worry if you shoot up, point of this excercise is to prevent VRS. Do not rely on vertical speed indicator. It lags quite a bit and once it shows 3 m/s descent, you are probably in 5+ m/s. Look outside for cues.

[TrumBass]

15 часов назад, Gpruitt54 сказал:

I have a hard time getting this helicopter to slow down into a hoover without the machine instantly going into VRS.

 

14 часов назад, Ramsay сказал:

 

Same, I find making note of the blade pitch angle req'ed for IGE hover helps

Remember a few simple rules for landing on the Mi-8. Do not under any circumstances make sudden decelerations in the air (leads to a vortex ring). When landing, it is not necessary to look at the pitch of the main rotor, it is enough to observe the variometer and not go beyond the descent speed. 3-4 m / s is more than enough. In preparation for hovering, the pitch of the main rotor should be increased as a result of the transition from the oblique flow to the direct flow and a decrease in the lift of the blades with a decrease in the forward speed of the helicopter.

 

13 часов назад, cromhunt сказал:

Some sound of vibrations advise you that you are close of power limits.

Misconception, power is enough. Vibrations are caused by the main rotor aerodynamics. The approach is recommended upwind. Approach is allowed with headwind and crosswind, the speed of which does not exceed 10m/s.

 

 

You can take some information from this website (RU) http://hvash.com/index.php/vertoletovozhdenie/19-osobennosti-pilotirovaniya-mi-8mt-mtv

[Ramsay]

6 hours ago, TrumBass said:

Remember a few simple rules for landing on the Mi-8. Do not under any circumstances make sudden decelerations in the air (leads to a vortex ring). When landing, it is not necessary to look at the pitch of the main rotor, it is enough to observe the variometer and not go beyond the descent speed. 3-4 m / s is more than enough. In preparation for hovering, the pitch of the main rotor should be increased as a result of the transition from the oblique flow to the direct flow and a decrease in the lift of the blades with a decrease in the forward speed of the helicopter.

I've flown the DCS Mi-8 for a few years and am aware of it's quirks, the main issue is when returning with Huey and Gazelle muscle memory.

 

I find the DCS Mi-8 particularly sensitive to descent speed when transitioning to a stationary IGE hover. In the past I was able to use the variometer but these days it seems slower to react and the helicopter seems to perhaps enter a "reverse" ground effect - I know it sounds stupid but, in the past, we've seen such things (bugs) in the F5 and F/A-18C flight models.

 

The best graph of how the current DCS VRS "feels" (to me) is this one from the Russian forum (red is DCS, blue is real).

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/95108-bagi-problemy-velikolepnoj-vosmerki/?do=findComment&comment=4678200

 

As a workaround for the slow variometer and VRS sensitivity (~2m/s) in certain phases of a landing, I found knowing the Mi-8's IGE Hover Rotor Blade Pitch Angle a good predictor (much in the same way you'd use torque in the Gazelle or KW).

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Ramsay
Spelling

[Quadg]

having the rotor blade pitch angle is useful.

 

in the huey I have got used to judging it by the position of the collective.

 

but having a gauge that actually shows you is useful.

 

noting the blade angle needed to hover is part of my hover check.

 

i also use the EPR to find cruise and then note the pitch angle.

to stay in an unlimited engine regime.

(as long as altitude does not change too much)

[cromhunt]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:07 AM, TrumBass said:

 

Remember a few simple rules for landing on the Mi-8. Do not under any circumstances make sudden decelerations in the air (leads to a vortex ring). When landing, it is not necessary to look at the pitch of the main rotor, it is enough to observe the variometer and not go beyond the descent speed. 3-4 m / s is more than enough. In preparation for hovering, the pitch of the main rotor should be increased as a result of the transition from the oblique flow to the direct flow and a decrease in the lift of the blades with a decrease in the forward speed of the helicopter.

 

Misconception, power is enough. Vibrations are caused by the main rotor aerodynamics. The approach is recommended upwind. Approach is allowed with headwind and crosswind, the speed of which does not exceed 10m/s.

 

 

You can take some information from this website (RU) http://hvash.com/index.php/vertoletovozhdenie/19-osobennosti-pilotirovaniya-mi-8mt-mtv

Not a misconception i know all that is due to pilot an helicopter in any conditions as i was pilot in real world.

But i think that it's not the case for all players reading the post.I'm trying to explain with maybe a poor english,how you have to do in the game to succeed your landing.

And in the game it's not so easy than in real world.

Not only harder but sometime false,and real behaviour even with a lot of graphics,doesn't explain the games bugs.

VRS in game is just stupid.

As you may loose your main rotor blade on HUEY,it's dumb 
it make not sense

Edited June 17, 2021 by cromhunt