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Path Finding Broken (2.7) (track attached)


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Tested CA path finding on an empty test mission I made.
3 unit groups:

 

Group 1 -- 1 unit (M1A2)

Group 2 -- 4 units (M1A2)

Group 3 -- 6 units mixed

 

Putting all three groups in column formation results in only the lead units moving (for multi-unit groups) at first at really slow speeds. Eventually other units in multi-unit groups will start moving, but also at slow speed. Some units don't move at all.


Any other formation (line abreast, staggered, diamond, etc.) forces all units to move at increased speed, but then they won't follow roads if you set a road waypoint. The yellow lines show on the road, but the units drive off road, though trees, etc. Units will also attempt to follow a road but instead drive beside the road through trees/bushes/other terrain objects  instead of driving on the road.

 

I had all three groups pathed to cross a river using a bridge. In any other formation except column, they'll go off road and cross the river by driving through the river.

After they crossed the river, I switched them back to column to get them back on road, and some units actually did a 180 degree turn and drove BACK through the river to get to the road, then used the bridge.

CA Pathing Bugged.trk


Edited by Halcyon
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Good report ; it's been like in 2.5 also, so the supposed "fix" probably didn't fix a lot 😉

Zip - VEAF :pilotfly:

 

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If you're a mission creator, you may want to check the VEAF Mission Creation Tools (and its GitHub repository) a set of open-source scripts and tools that make creating a dynamic mission a breeze !

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no this is 100X worse than any pathfinding I have seen in years. This should be a priority to get a hotfix out. The fun level on the server went from 9.5/10 to 1/10

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@BIGNEWY@NineLine Is this reported yet to the devs (I don't want this one to get lost), its a CA breaker right now and my server relies on CA, I have lost 30% of my population being the most heavy user of CA in the multiplayer server list, basically, the units needs to follow the path the user sets and not veer off on its own, the game taking its own path is causing this. When I send in a path to the API tasking a group, it drives completely fine and runs the path, so its between the CA f10 menu set path waypoint code I believe (wish I could help you with it being a developer)

Thanks (and yes I am back from being burnt out from DCS, have have some some magic with DDCS, its running really well, very fast, even with lots of units on the ground moving, had over 100 moving at the same time a few days ago before 2.7)

Developer of DDCS MP Engine, dynamicdcs.com

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=208608

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Are you saying you guys normally use on road with a formation? And previously it worked fine? I generally stick to using off road for formations, them trying to navigate trees and such, plus hold formation, and path gets them confused.

 

Edit: I tried the track a number of ways, the only time the vehicles went off road was when I let the track play back without touching it, if I took control, even with the path already set it was fine.

 

Is the mission created in 2.7, can I have the mission?

 

Thanks.

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Personally, I was on a MP server using the Caucasus map. Using CTLD I picked up a HumVee crate at the CTLD spawn point, and dropped it off near a road.

 

I used the set path in the F10 map, first waypoint was near the road close to the initial unpacking point, and the second on the road very near to first waypoint. The third waypoint was far away, maybe 30nm, but on the road also. I was very impressed with the speed the route was mapped out. 

 

But then the Humvee started moving and it was nowhere the road, driving across fields and got stuck in a forest.

 

 

edit: Seems flawless on SP though


Edited by jonsky7
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, NineLine said:

Are you saying you guys normally use on road with a formation? And previously it worked fine? I generally stick to using off road for formations, them trying to navigate trees and such, plus hold formation, and path gets them confused.

 

Edit: I tried the track a number of ways, the only time the vehicles went off road was when I let the track play back without touching it, if I took control, even with the path already set it was fine.

 

Is the mission created in 2.7, can I have the mission?

 

Thanks.

 

I don't expect non-column formations to follow on a road. That wouldn't be very logical obviously. But currently in 2.7, changing their formation is only one of two ways (that I've found) to get them moving again.
 

If you select a group and give them a road waypoint (green icon), the yellow dashed line pathing will appear, but very frequently the group won't move. Their speed is set at a default of about half the speed bar, but they'll just sit there while you watch the yellow dashed line start to disappear, starting at the units, and continue to shrink towards the waypoint set. You have to drag their speed slider bar to 0, and then back to a desired speed to get them to move and the yellow dashed line to once again emanate from the lead vehicle in the group.

The second way to get them moving is changing their formation type, but upon doing that, they'll go offroad, really fast at first, before slowing down because they hit every single object they can. Often driving offroad is faster than driving on the road in a column formation.

Units will also sometimes stop at bridges and remain there until you do the speed slider bar workaround, or change their formation to a non-column formation. Of course doing that makes them cross the river by going through the river, and as I said in the OP, if they're already beyond the river and you switch them back to the default column formation, they will drive back through the river to get to the road and then cross the bridge.

I attached the mission I used. It's just an empty Caucasus map with the three unit groups I outlined in the OP. I slotted into the tactical commander slot and issued them waypoints and reported the observed behavior that was supposed to be in the track file I provided.

CA Testing.miz


Edited by Halcyon
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Here are my general observations on combined arms in a multiplayer environment.

 

Pre 2.6 unit groups responded quickly  to mulitiple waypoint orders.

eg. unit group concealed in cover in village close to road. first waypoint from village to road - 2nd and subsequent waypoints along road for many kilometers. All units moved effortlessly into formation on road negotiating trees and buildings with ease.

 

Post 2.6 Similar scenario to above regards waypoint orders in f10 map. Some serious delays with rogue units in groups getting stuck and refusing to move. A workaround was to manually drive rogue units onto the road to re join group then issue new orders to group along road waypoints.

 

Post 2.7 Combined arms virtually unplayable in multiplayer (have not tested single player) Usually the lead unit may or may not move to the first waypoint whether that be on or off road. 

Then usually if the lead unit moves at all it's the only one that will move to the second and subseqeunt leaving the others behind.

With units going rogue in every unit group all over the place it makes Combined Arms unfortunately at this time - not fit for purpose. A terrible shame as it's a fantastic module when it worked well pre 2.6. (certain crossing bridge issues on Caucasus aside)

 

Unfortunately I don't have any track files to back this all up but try a quick visit to any Multiplayer server that properly embraces Combined Arms and you can see for yourself.

Be advised if you value your hair you may end up pulling it out.

Thanks for your consideration in advance.

 

I'm sure these issues will be ironed out and we look forward to more exciting tank battles in future.

Going forward Combined arms has huge extra potential with new features I hope we will see and I am sure may be in the works.

 

 

Personal wish list.

 

Platoon strength Mixed heavy weapon infantry squads AT MG AA - can embark/disembark IFVS.

Paratroopers!   Modern but especially WW2 American, British.(Red berets!),  fallschirmjäger

 

Means of delivery of above infantry. C47 C130 Ju52  Flyable? full fidelity? One can but dream.

 

Ok that's enough of my letter to Sana. it could go on and on.

 

Thanks for a great DCS experience thus far. I own most of the aircraft modules and my next purchase will undoubtedly be the Mosquito.

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Also on the server I play on, uses groups of three units. When I make a path for the units the units dont follow the road but follow the dashed yellow line that portrays the intended path. The yellow dashed line is always ahead of the units (about .3mi) So when as the units come up to a, say 180 degree turn, and since the yellow dashed line has already made the turn, the units cut the turn early and follow the dashed line. I have a video to show it but unfortunately to big to upload

 

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On 4/25/2021 at 6:59 AM, CAPT_Kirkpatrick said:

just a heads up, you can improve the path finding by swapping the formation ever time it gets stuck. That seems to prevent the path from shrinking far ahead of your vehicle when I used it in MP the other day

keyword "improve". and that method is very temporary

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54 minutes ago, chief said:

keyword "improve". and that method is very temporary

well yes, the idea is currently to make it possibly workable for those who might wish to use it in its limited extent, rather than discard it completely for an unknown time frame.

I'm not saying it's not broken or that "it works fine for me so you must be wrong", but for anyone who is trying to struggle along with it it gives them something that helps rather than nothing at all.

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On 4/20/2021 at 10:26 PM, key_stroked said:

 

I don't expect non-column formations to follow on a road. That wouldn't be very logical obviously. But currently in 2.7, changing their formation is only one of two ways (that I've found) to get them moving again.
 

If you select a group and give them a road waypoint (green icon), the yellow dashed line pathing will appear, but very frequently the group won't move. Their speed is set at a default of about half the speed bar, but they'll just sit there while you watch the yellow dashed line start to disappear, starting at the units, and continue to shrink towards the waypoint set. You have to drag their speed slider bar to 0, and then back to a desired speed to get them to move and the yellow dashed line to once again emanate from the lead vehicle in the group.

The second way to get them moving is changing their formation type, but upon doing that, they'll go offroad, really fast at first, before slowing down because they hit every single object they can. Often driving offroad is faster than driving on the road in a column formation.

Units will also sometimes stop at bridges and remain there until you do the speed slider bar workaround, or change their formation to a non-column formation. Of course doing that makes them cross the river by going through the river, and as I said in the OP, if they're already beyond the river and you switch them back to the default column formation, they will drive back through the river to get to the road and then cross the bridge.

I attached the mission I used. It's just an empty Caucasus map with the three unit groups I outlined in the OP. I slotted into the tactical commander slot and issued them waypoints and reported the observed behavior that was supposed to be in the track file I provided.

CA Testing.miz 8.3 kB · 2 downloads

 

Can you give me a track where they wont move when given orders? I am not getting this when I try your mission. So thats super weird.

 

And just as I said that, it happened 🙂

I will report it.

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Also, and maybe unrelated, lots of times a convoy on a road stops when one of the vehicles encounters problems.

This can be :

  • a damaged vehicle that cannot move anymore (should be abandonned)
  • a vehicle that is blocked by a wreck (when all other vehicles pass through the wreck as if it was a ghost)
  • some other cause that I don't understand

Zip - VEAF :pilotfly:

 

If you want to learn, talk and fly with french-speaking friends, the Virtual European Air Force is here for you ! Meet us on our Discord and our forum

If you're a mission creator, you may want to check the VEAF Mission Creation Tools (and its GitHub repository) a set of open-source scripts and tools that make creating a dynamic mission a breeze !

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2021 at 10:30 AM, NineLine said:

Can you give me a track where they wont move when given orders? I am not getting this when I try your mission. So thats super weird.

 

And just as I said that, it happened 🙂

I will report it.


Great! I'm glad you're seeing the same behavior. Btw, the track I supplied in the OP showed that behavior (not moving when given orders). Imo your track file system isn't very reliable. It doesn't show a 100% replay of what actually happened


Edited by key_stroked
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In this screen shot the M2A2 is moving along the pathway to it's left. I think one of the problems might be that the end of the pathway is very far ahead of the unit itself.

 


Screen_210429_003538.png

 

So it ends up trying to hit the end of the path, which makes it go off road. The units also stop before reaching the destination point because the path line has already made it there.


Screen_210429_0035382.png

 

 

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