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Is it worth to buy it now ?


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The F16 module is at discounted price now. But I read some months ago this module was missed of lot of features. 

So what about now ? Is it worth to buy it now ?

if so, what is provided with the module : training missions ? campaign ? it is not very clear in the module description.

 

Thanks for your feedback

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28 minutes ago, jcbb92 said:

The F16 module is at discounted price now. But I read some months ago this module was missed of lot of features. 

So what about now ? Is it worth to buy it now ?

if so, what is provided with the module : training missions ? campaign ? it is not very clear in the module description.

 

Thanks for your feedback

The F-16 is 100% worth it. Most of the features missing are advanced features that are more important when you're really trying to be realistic with the way you fly. If you're just going to fly around and be happy you will not notice the missing stuff at all. And soon we will have JDAMs which will make "flying around" much more enjoyable for many people. If you're planning on going all in and learning the aircraft to a realistic level, the aircraft will probably be a lot more developed once you've actually learned most of the aircraft. Either way you can't go wrong with the F-16, i highly recommend buying it!
As for missions, campaigns etc. I have no clue about them sorry.
Safe flights!

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29 minutes ago, jcbb92 said:

The F16 module is at discounted price now. But I read some months ago this module was missed of lot of features. 

So what about now ? Is it worth to buy it now ?

if so, what is provided with the module : training missions ? campaign ? it is not very clear in the module description.

 

Thanks for your feedback

I have lots of fun with the Viper. It was very buggy several months ago, which made it frustrating to do A-G with laser guided bombs and Mavericks, but after some updates it's now very functional in both A-A and A-G, although still incomplete. 

 

It currently lacks an A-G radar or helmet mounted targeting for A-G, but the helmet targeting works decently well for A-A.  With the Litening targeting pod and well-placed waypoints it's fun to strike ground targets.

 

It is still waiting for JDAMs and might never get a Harpoon, but it has decent HARM functionality.

 

Some people seem to complain that the flight model is under performing in dog fights, but that's not my thing.

 

It is much less complete than the Hornet at the moment, but still entirely playable and enjoyable unless you really need the missing features or final flight model tweaking. 

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"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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And this is a matter of taste, but I like its avionics workflow and layout, and the way it feels in flight, better than the Hornet.

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"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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17 minutes ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

The F-16 is 100% worth it. Most of the features missing are advanced features that are more important when you're really trying to be realistic with the way you fly. If you're just going to fly around and be happy you will not notice the missing stuff at all. And soon we will have JDAMs which will make "flying around" much more enjoyable for many people. If you're planning on going all in and learning the aircraft to a realistic level, the aircraft will probably be a lot more developed once you've actually learned most of the aircraft. Either way you can't go wrong with the F-16, i highly recommend buying it!
As for missions, campaigns etc. I have no clue about them sorry.
Safe flights!

This. The flight model may not be completely finished and competitive in BFM against F-18 et al., but for me it is quite a joy to fly. I recommend taking it slow with learning to fly this bird. I learn it step by step, getting landings really right, getting to know the FLCS and so on. I find this takes enough time. I'm happy with CCIP, becoming satisfactory competent using the radar and just racing the viper through obstacle courses. But of course ymmv.


Edited by Archduke
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Also there is Bunyaps Red Flag campaign that seems to be really great. I bought it a few weeks ago but decided to become at least halfway competent so as not to ruin a great campaign through my own failings.

 

The module itself has got the usual lessons und missions of which there could be more. I guess ED will supply more missions further into EA. There is no campaign bundled, but tbh there is so much to do and learn that I don't think that's a problem.


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when i flew it at the last free trial, i absolutely did not think that it was worth to buy - for me that is.

 

i did enjoy it and will definitely buy it at a later date, but what stuck with me was that 10 seconds after jumping in the cockpit you see placeholder-menus etc. in the mfds. i do not care that some weapon systems are not yet available, but you very obviously notice things that are placeholders even if you are new to the aircraft.

 

if you play dcs for the immersion and the joy of learning the complex systems, i'd advise you to wait. for me at least it's frutrating if you struggle to make basic things work just to learn that it's not modeled at that moment in time.


Edited by twistking

My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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Yes placeholders are there cause the module is not complete, hence the Early Access tag, from my perspective I like the project and I wanted to support it, so I did buy it,

 

I'd say if you like the plane for what it is buy it now, you don't have to fly it if you don't like the unfinished stuff but if you like the plane you gonna buy it anyway later, so why not buy now and support the project.

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In my opinion the F-16 has been worth getting for months. But it really depends on you. If you want a 100% complete plane, don't get it because it's not there yet. If you want a plane with core features in place, but lacking some of the its full capability and procedure, the F-16 is fine.

 

You can use it for air to air and air to ground missions just fine, but you just won't be able to do everything that a real F-16 can yet. The biggest things missing are probably JDAM (but LGB's and Mavericks are available) and the HARM Targeting Pod. The flight model is under going tweaking so how the plane competes with other aircraft is slightly off, though the general character of the plane as a fast and agile light fighter has been captured. Avionics wise the F-16's radar is overperforming. The F-18 just had its radar range cut, and same will happen to the F-16 down the line. As far as content for the module, I make my own so I don't really know if it comes with anything. I've seen a handful of missions on the user files though.

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25 minutes ago, Furiz said:

Yes placeholders are there cause the module is not complete, hence the Early Access tag, from my perspective I like the project and I wanted to support it, so I did buy it,

 

I'd say if you like the plane for what it is buy it now, you don't have to fly it if you don't like the unfinished stuff but if you like the plane you gonna buy it anyway later, so why not buy now and support the project.

Exactly, that's what I pretty much did. At the time I bought the hornet when it was in very early access but since it was the only 4th generation multirole there was, I flew it all the time. But with the Viper I feel as if I would rather enjoy the much more complete hornet than the other less complete 4th gen multirole that is the Viper. I am sure it will change when the f16 gets more complete but at least I have a plane I can get excited for every time it gets updates to it just like the hornet was exciting when it got it's updates.

 

But like @Exorcet said above me, the core plane is still very nice and I'd add, it's the best quality module imho. Just gotta wait for it's full release


Edited by notproplayer3

Full fidelity su27/mig29 ?

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46 minutes ago, twistking said:

when i flew it at the last free trial, i absolutely did not think that it was worth to buy - for me that is.

 

i did enjoy it and will definitely buy it at a later date, but what stuck with me was that 10 seconds after jumping in the cockpit you see placeholder-menus etc. in the mfds. i do not care that some weapon systems are not yet available, but you very obviously notice things that are placeholders even if you are new to the aircraft.

 

if you play dcs for the immersion and the joy of learning the complex systems, i'd advise you to wait. for me at least it's frutrating if you struggle to make basic things work just to learn that it's not modeled at that moment in time.

 

What "placeholder-menus" are you annoyed about? Most of the pages are test pages and pages that are only used for setting up very advanced stuff. I don't think most people would ever touch most of the pages.

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2 hours ago, jcbb92 said:

The F16 module is at discounted price now. But I read some months ago this module was missed of lot of features. 

So what about now ? Is it worth to buy it now ?

if so, what is provided with the module : training missions ? campaign ? it is not very clear in the module description.

 

Thanks for your feedback

SpaceMonkey037 probably gave you the best answer you need for your decision making in his first post. The only thing I want to add to his post is that on top of it all flying the Viper really is a ton of fun. It actually feels like a fighter jet. You won´t regret it if you buy the F-16...


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4 minutes ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

What "placeholder-menus" are you annoyed about? Most of the pages are test pages and pages that are only used for setting up very advanced stuff. I don't think most people would ever touch most of the pages.

to be honest, i don't remember the exact menus and functions. i guess it comes down to how you approach and learn a module. i do a cold start and not only find the quickest way to fly, but i do the complete, full start-up sequence and also try to understand the whole aircraft, that means diving into all menus to see what can be set up etc.

i also tested the hornet and did not run into a single menu or function that did not work as expected, with the viper there many things that were very obviously not finished yet. some very directly said "placeholder", other things just did not feel correct and after searching in the forum i more often than not had to read, that those things are still in development.

 

might not be a big problem for many, as the aircraft does the flying and does the shooting, but for me it's not where i would want it to be as a "study sim". that's all.

My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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I bought it last year and have not regretted it at all. Just flying it, no combat, is quite fun in and of itself. For me, it was also my first high performance aircraft as my only modules then were the P-51 and A-10C. Lot of fun for me to push that throttle up, hear the afterburner light, and fly the hell out of it. Cloud surfing in 2.7 is a blast too!

 

I don’t mind that it doesn’t have all the features yet. In some ways it can help you learn other things that you normally wouldn’t do often. Like last year when the T-POD had issues and it was very tough to drop LGB’s, it forced me to practice CCRP and CCIP modes with dumb bombs. As a result my skills with manual drops improved (good tip here is to use full racks of BDU-33 to get the most out of your bomb practice). 
 

IMO it is worth it, especially where it is at now compared to last year. And it’ll get better and more features added as time goes. 

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2 hours ago, twistking said:

to be honest, i don't remember the exact menus and functions. i guess it comes down to how you approach and learn a module. i do a cold start and not only find the quickest way to fly, but i do the complete, full start-up sequence and also try to understand the whole aircraft, that means diving into all menus to see what can be set up etc.

i also tested the hornet and did not run into a single menu or function that did not work as expected, with the viper there many things that were very obviously not finished yet. some very directly said "placeholder", other things just did not feel correct and after searching in the forum i more often than not had to read, that those things are still in development.

 

might not be a big problem for many, as the aircraft does the flying and does the shooting, but for me it's not where i would want it to be as a "study sim". that's all.

Like I said if you really go into the deeps of it you will find that learning the aircraft takes so long that by the time you run into anything that's not developed it will already have been fixed. This is what I've been doing and I don't have any major problem at all. You can fly the aircraft in a very realistic fashion right now if you put in the effort.

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15 minutes ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

Like I said if you really go into the deeps of it you will find that learning the aircraft takes so long that by the time you run into anything that's not developed it will already have been fixed. This is what I've been doing and I don't have any major problem at all. You can fly the aircraft in a very realistic fashion right now if you put in the effort.

well, back in decembre with the free trial, it took me under a minute to run into things that were not developed. maybe there were massive improvments since then (which i doubt) or we simply have different expectations, or different approaches to learning, or simply a different threshold on what we feel is immersion-breaking and what is not.

 

*edit* remember there were many people that were completely happy and satisfied when the viper first released. i guess i am a bit on the other side of the spectrum...


Edited by twistking

My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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9 minutes ago, twistking said:

well, back in decembre with the free trial, it took me under a minute to run into things that were not developed. maybe there were massive improvments since then (which i doubt) or we simply have different expectations, or different approaches to learning, or simply a different threshold on what we feel is immersion-breaking and what is not.

 

*edit* remember there were many people that were completely happy and satisfied when the viper first released. i guess i am a bit on the other side of the spectrum...

 

I know there are placeholder pages on the MFDs that you can get to in a single press of a button, but I haven't found any that leave me wanting something I need to use. 

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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5 hours ago, Machalot said:

And this is a matter of taste, but I like its avionics workflow and layout, and the way it feels in flight, better than the Hornet.

A good jet, a hot rod.  Get it, love it.  But the Hornet is still a more versatile tactical jet. 😛

My monitor replacement fundraiser...PayPal mech.driver@rogers.com

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1 hour ago, Mower said:

A good jet, a hot rod.  Get it, love it.  But the Hornet is still a more versatile tactical jet. 😛

Can't argue with that. But I find the Hornet more clunky to use. Too much clicky clicky through all the screens and sub modes. 


Edited by Machalot
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"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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I think it was worth it on release day 1, but other opinions are available. 

 

What you have right now is a very capable and feature rich (if by no means complete) multi role 4th gen fighter.  It can perform BVR and WVR A2A, deliver laser guided and dumb bombs, and fire HARM and Maverick with more realism than any other module, plus a fully functioning TGP.  There are still some major elements missing, such as IAMs, HTS, ground RADAR, navigation planning aids (TOT, CRUS etc), BIT tests, ECM, pilot G resistance, HMCS is still missing A2G stuff, plus apparently some flight model tweaks (but having never flown a Viper IRL I am in no position to say what they are, if indeed there are any).  Plus cosmetic stuff like the canopy lifting arm and locking arrangements not yet animated correctly, on non-foldable arm rests but that's minor stuff really.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Machalot said:

Can't argue with that. But I find the Hornet more clunky to use. Too much clicky clicky through all the screens and sub modes. 

 

True. Viper's hotas functions are better. Also better cockpit layout imo compare to the Hornet. 

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9 hours ago, twistking said:

well, back in decembre with the free trial, it took me under a minute to run into things that were not developed. maybe there were massive improvments since then (which i doubt) or we simply have different expectations, or different approaches to learning, or simply a different threshold on what we feel is immersion-breaking and what is not.

 

*edit* remember there were many people that were completely happy and satisfied when the viper first released. i guess i am a bit on the other side of the spectrum...

 

I totally agree with you on the fact that it's easy to find systems that aren't developed, my problem is that you assume that all systems are important for the avarage player, they're not.

DED pages:
CRUS: CRUS is useful for cruising at specific altitudes, but by using the 400/0.82 cruise/climb thumb rule you get a very similar fuel to nm ratio, more than enough for dcs players.
MARK: MARK is useful for marking things that were unexpectedly encountered. Usually you would never actually use this to target things as A-G requires a lot of planning, and you would usually never target anything without coordinates for that target. Same goes for CAS. So IRL MARK isn't used too often. This function doesn't have much use in dcs right now if you'd ask me, mainly people who have done no planning for their mission would benefit from this function.
FIX: Fix is used to correct INS drift by calibrating your INS to a known position. In dcs this would be next to useless because we don't have INS drift, and once we get INS drift, our GPS will correct this drift if the GPS is on and INS FILTER MODE is in NORM. This function is useless in dcs right now.
ACAL: ACAL - altitude calibration calibrates the aircrafts system altitude to improve gps guided A-G weapon accuracy. Until we get proper INS drift this will not be a problem in dcs and so this function is mostly useless.
DEST: The DEST page allows the pilot to view, and change steerpoint without changing the selected steerpoint. This funtion is quality of life more than anything else, and is far from an important page to have asap.

VIP/VRP: VIP and VRP are used with VIP and VRP sighting modes respecively, both modes combine a fix for SPI with usual delivery modes to increase weapon accuracy. This mode is only useful if you have INS drift, so this mode would  be useless in dcs atm.
CORR: CORR allows the pilot to calibrate the HMCS head position. This function only adds to realism, and would not aid in functionality of the aircraft.
MAGV: The MAGV page allows for the magnetic variation to be manually entered instead of being automatic, and if you're in automatic MAGV mode you will be able to see the variation which is automatically inputted. This will not add much in terms of functionality to our F-16.
OFP: The OFP DED page gives you information about OFP (operational flight program) IDs. this would be next to useless in dcs.
INSM: The INSM (INS Memory) page gives you infromation about INS drift. This is information you would look at when shutting down to view the INS's quality.
GPS: The GPS page gives you GPS information like current coordiantes, ground speed, time and date etc. This information can be found other places as well and so this is quality of life more than anything else, plus I dubt most DCS players would even want to know this information.
BULL: Allows the pilot to select which  steerpoint to be used as bullseye.

For MFD pages it is mostly the same, where most of the functions would be completley useless to the avarage dcs player as you can see. Just saying "a lot of things are missing" isn't going to cut it because most of the things that are missing are also mostly useless to dcs players.

 

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Gret!
Many thanks for all your feedbacks

 

I flown a lot of hours on Falcon 3 then Falcon 4. The F16 is my "heart plane" 🙂

I worried to be disappointed with this DCS version as the just released one was lacked of functionnalities.

Your good reviews have convinced me to buy it

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1 hour ago, jcbb92 said:

Gret!
Many thanks for all your feedbacks

 

I flown a lot of hours on Falcon 3 then Falcon 4. The F16 is my "heart plane" 🙂

I worried to be disappointed with this DCS version as the just released one was lacked of functionnalities.

Your good reviews have convinced me to buy it

Buy it. Despite all the imperfections, F-16 is the king of BVR in DCS right now. So if you are into PVP BVR, it's gonna be a really rewarding experience. 

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MARK IS necessary for us, since we fly a dynamic campaign.

Also Bullseye to TDC is mandatory and the F16 doesn't have it atm.

 

If you like to fly alone and only do some training its ok but forget it if you plan to fly seriously, its missing basic stuff.

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