A2A Refuelling Help

[tmansteve]

Been trying to get this right for a while now. Other modules are easier for me but was wondering what deadzone and curve settings have you guys found to be just right.

 

I find that I drift into PIO if not careful. Watched Maverick video and found that very helpful. Using t16000m hotas

 

Cheers

Edited April 15, 2021 by tmansteve

[Wingmate]

I've never used your HOTAS, but with my previous HOTAS (X-55) I used a curve of 15 on pitch and roll and set the deadzone as small as possible while still covering all the play the stick had while centered. With my current setup (VKB Gunfighter MKIII F-14 w/ 200mm extension) I use no curves or deadzones.

 

I have also not watched the video you are speaking of so I don't know if it was mentioned but I find that wiggling my toes helps prevent me from tensing up on the stick and makes it much smoother.

[tmansteve]

Thanks for that buddy

[SpikeGondorff]

Might already be covered in one of the videos you watched, but I can't refuel unless my wing sweep is in Bombing mode.  My joystick has no deadzone, but a 15-20 curve (forget how much exactly).  

 

Another trick that I like is to trim the plane so that I need to slightly pull back on it to maintain altitude.  This forces me to always make small adjustments, instead of relaxing too much and failing to anticipate where the plane is going.  It also makes small adjustments easier, because you're already putting force on the stick.  

[tmansteve]

Hey Spike

 

Yeah, I make sure I am in bomb mode. I trimmed but found it difficult to get the plane steady in position to hook up to the drogue. I haven't had this problem with harrier or hornet but this might be due to shorter wingspan etc.

 

I think a lot of practice with varying curves. Thanks for info

[Gibo]

As already posted (see post Please advice at refueling struggling) I also had had a lot of truble to refuel than, with a lot of practice and with some tips, I finally became able to perform refuel. I don't suggest to tuch the curves and my tips are:

• wings in bombe mode
• trim to mantain a good altitude stability compared to the tanker
• adjust your seat (lower it) to see the Tanker well
• watch the tanker speed and memorize it; than call your IAS in the cockpit (i think the default button is CTRL + Y) and go to catch the basket with 2 kts of speed advantage (that will stabilize your approach to the basket)
• when you get the basket, to mantain the linking, climb some feet and watch the pod connected to the basket and with your periferical view watch the tanker to match its speed and make adjusment to mantain the contact
• I find usefull to use the speed brake with hotas button to open it for a fraction of second and close it immediatly to reach the disered speed before contact and to mantain the speed when linked to the basket

[The_Tau]

Personally throttle  work is where secret lies.  Especially that in f14 pitch changes slightly when power is applied.  So what you want is microscopic throttle movements in F14B, as its engines are very powerful.  A lot of practice is required. At beginning try this.  Add throttle power and as soon you can see tanker get closer, go idle. When tanker stopped moving (same speed) add power, when tanker getting closer go idle. You are going to see how powerful engines are and how short amount of time you actually adding power (1sec or less) to start getting speed. After practice you will learn how small amount of throttle movement you actually need

[tmansteve]

Thanks so much for all your input. There is always one plane that causes a slight problem and it's the F14. Everything on this plane is a doddle apart from the A2A. I think as has been said that your viewpoint is crucial. I do find myself leaning over to the right as the basket is hidden from view. I will try lowering my seat a bit and see how that goes. Also going to have a look at my curve settings and lessen them.

 

Cheers

[IronMike]

2 hours ago, tmansteve said:

Thanks so much for all your input. There is always one plane that causes a slight problem and it's the F14. Everything on this plane is a doddle apart from the A2A. I think as has been said that your viewpoint is crucial. I do find myself leaning over to the right as the basket is hidden from view. I will try lowering my seat a bit and see how that goes. Also going to have a look at my curve settings and lessen them.

 

Cheers

 

Do not - ever - look at the basket. This is a recipe for failing over and over again. If you watched Mav's video, check again where he orientates himself in regard to viewpoints. It is always some point on the tanker, never the basket. For each tanker there is a line up point, but usually it is having the refueling pod or the cable run straight through the top middle of the hud.

I recommend learning it in Wing Auto, asap, btw. Bomb mode is a beginner mode and great for starters, but it is just as doable and easy in wings auto as well. However: long term it teaches you not only how to refuel proper, but also how to trim level (TRIMMING IS KEY!) at slow speeds which will also help you trimming on speed for case1s, and similar.

Make small throttle inputs as correctly mentioned above, pitch with power can be "drastic" in the F14.

My recommendation: train your formation skills around the tanker first, before you try hooking up. Put a tanker in a mission and just fly very close formations off of him, without even asking to rejoin. Start with a comfortable position, and, while you will be always moving around a bit, left right up and back, be strict with yourself: lock that position in your mind, and fight for it. There is no sweetspot for stick nor throttle, so you need to constantly add and reduce your inputs and think ahead, so that you dont start reacting, but always act.

Next step, vary your positions around the tanker, off and behind the right wing, off and behind the left wing, closer in, farther out, closer up, farther back, below it, left of it, right of it, etc. And then start transitioning between these positions and try to do it as gracefully and elegantly and slowly as you can.

Make sure that you always have a lose grip on the stick and breathe, yes breathing is important. You will laugh, but I know my folks, haha, I know how many clinch to the stick and almost hold their breath: this is very bad for relaxed muscle memory. Your palm should be almost not closed around the stick, but firm enough to keep constantly moving it. Calm yourself! I mean that: proactively calm yourself when refueling. You should have fun, not sweating bullets. In the end, it doesnt matter how long it takes you to get it right. It matters that you have fun while trying and that you enjoy yourself. Stop trying, when you stop enjoying yourself, go do something else for a while, come back later with refreshed mood.

Dont forget: The Tomcat isnt fly by wire, so if you pull back on the stick, you need to push it back forward again. And vice versa. You can start with larger inputs and then become smaller and smaller. Ppl who fly "rock solid" still make constant inputs, only so small, you think they dont, but they very well do.

I hope these tips help, and many great tips above as well!

Most importantly: don't give up, but don't train mistakes. If nothing works, let it be, try again tomorrow. If you feel you are still having a hard time with the drogue, go back to training your "fighting for position" around the tanker, try to become smoother.

Good luck!

Edited April 17, 2021 by IronMike

[draconus]

Great tips above! The easiest tanker/mission is KC-130 - NTTR refueling Instant Action - try it. T16000M here - no curves needed, just a deadzone of 3-4.

[Q3ark]

Something that really helped me when I was struggling with pilot induced oscillation  throwing me out of the basket, was to leave the wings in auto mode, get on the left of the tanker and match speed get trimmed out properly, then pull the wings back a few degrees on manual, re-trim that way when I’m in the basket the wings won’t sweep with small changes in airspeed causing you to have to re-trim. 

[Roosterfeet]

I've found that switching to "HUD only view" as soon as I'm in the basket really helps with my awareness of position next to the tanker. That view doesn't change FOV, it just removes your aircraft graphics from your view. I find that in the normal view, too much of the tanker is obscured for me to reliably judge if I'm drifting too far forward or aft until it's too late to correct. I have a HOTAS button bound just for that. Maybe with more practice I'll be able to do without it but for now it's the difference between filling up in one plug vs a dozen.

[tmansteve]

Many thanks IronMike and to the rest of you for giving me confidence in this. I will crack it as I have with other modules but she is a beast.

 

Cheers Guys