yes Did Mav Space Stabilize make it in?

[AvroLanc]

As per Wag's video - Did Maverick space stabilize function make it into 2.7 yesterday?

 

 

I can't get it to work with DMS forward long.....

[Foka]

Well, you can check the patch notes to verify that.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/

[Northstar98]

7 minutes ago, Foka said:

Well, you can check the patch notes to verify that.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/

 

Sometimes they're not accurate, a few of the HB items actually got pulled despite making the patch notes.

[AvroLanc]

35 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Sometimes they're not accurate, a few of the HB items actually got pulled despite making the patch notes.

 

Indeed. 

 

Just wondering about others experiences with Maverick since the patch.

[jaylw314]

Haven't checked it myself, but a buddy reported it is included, despite not being in the changelog notes

[Stuka]

7 hours ago, AvroLanc said:

 

I can't get it to work with DMS forward long.....

you have to keep DMS forward pressed during slewing.

From the moment you release DMS, the seeker attempts lock.

[AvroLanc]

Yeah OK, further testing shows it is in. Although it’s not as ‘stabilised’ as I was expecting. The sensor image still drives forward at own ship ground speed I think, so it’s still a bit of a pain to TDC slew.

 

On the plus side, I’ve discovered that the MAV seeker can be slaved to the HMCS LOS. This works well and can be useful without relying on TGP. 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi 

 

it is space stabilized, not ground stabilized. It should move forward at the same rate as the aircraft.

 

thanks

[AvroLanc]

32 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi 

 

it is space stabilized, not ground stabilized. It should move forward at the same rate as the aircraft.

 

thanks

 

Yeah, makes sense now. 

Thanks. 
 

[Rhinozherous]

TMS Aft short is GROUND Stabilized, DMS Fwd long is SPACE Stabilized. 

[Caldera]

Hey All,

 

A question for the more experience pilots. 

 

I am trying to figure out when best to use this feature.  The view in the MAV window is not really clear enough really to accurately distinguish targets at any sort of range.  If the targets are not in the open I just as often I hit a tree or a building or a whatever.  With that in mind, moving in close enough to be of greater accuracy it kind of the removes a huge advantage of using the maverick in the first place, which is stand off.  I might as well do a guns attack.  Or in other words, sniping from a safe range or stabbing with a dagger.

 

How would you pick the circumstance to effectively use this feature? 

Why not just use the TGP, slave the maverick, and be incredibly accurate at maximum range or at just about any range?

 

Thanks in advance,

Caldera

[SJBMX]

You would use it if you didn't have a TGP.

[Faelwolf]

You would use it for when you don't have a TGP, but also quick acquisition of targets out in the open, or multiples in proximity of each other for faster kill times. It has a speed advantage over using the TGP for designating targets.
No need to set a SPI or markpoint for each target in a scattered group, just throw down a markpoint in the middle for SPI using TGP, HUD, or JHMCS, even TAD if you've got the knack . Then china hat the mavs to SPI, stabilize to get easier locks, pick a target, and fire. Lather, rinse, repeat. In an urban area, heavy woods, or nearby obstruction the mav keeps sticking to, etc. do it the old fashioned way, or go to a laser mav if you have worse locking issues.  The advantage of space stabilize instead of ground stabilize is it's going to give you real time feedback on your closure rate. 
The A10C is like a Swiss Army knife, it has a lot of tools, but no one tool does everything for every situation.

[Stuka]

When the target is a group of vehicles, and any individual vehicle is a valid target, there's no need to use the TGP.

Bring the wagon wheel over the target area, pick one out, lock and rifle.

When doing a shooters attack, the fighter to fighter brief will cover the target sorting.

[Caldera]

Typically, I seem to find myself sniping with the mavericks mostly at AAA or SAM's and using other weapons for groups etc... 

 

That is the wrong use for space stabilization for sure and that is more than likely my issue.  I just need more practice.

 

Caldera

[Taz1004]

I've always had hard time locking Mavericks with old method.  With space stabilization, I can lock targets reliably from max range.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Taz1004

[Oilman100]

Does the stabilisation also work with the IR variant 65D ?

[Caldera]

Taz,

 

I just about always fire at max range using the TGP if I am targeting SAM's or AAA.  I should say close to max range.  I wait a few seconds to ensure that the missile in fact has adequate range if it has to maneuver.

 

Caldera

[Bartacomus]

So Stabilizing, this will keep the MAV reticle from dancing around from the plane moving?  (as long as you have it held down?)

[jaylw314]

19 hours ago, Bartacomus said:

So Stabilizing, this will keep the MAV reticle from dancing around from the plane moving?  (as long as you have it held down?)

Yes, although it will still move forwards at the same speed as the plane, IIRC

[Frederf]

Space stabilization is the simplest mode of a gyroscopic seeker as found on the Maverick. Inside the missile and part of why it takes some time to get ready once powered is a lump of spinning metal. The seeker camera is bolted to this spinning metal and unless otherwise constrained or torqued will continue pointing in the same direction. It can be thought of that the seeker is continually pointing at a fixed location an infinite distance away. It "floats". Looking through the seeker video feed any sideways motion is due to parallax motion of the world going by.

 

Every other mode of the seeker involves either physical clamps (what hold the seeker when powering up to full spin) or logical inputs to the torquer electrical motors. Ground stabilize, boresight, tracking are all unnatural to a gyroscope.

 

Space stabilize is basically inhibiting the torquer motors and allowing the gyro to remain rigid in direction as gyroscopes naturally do. It should be available on every missile which does imaging (i.e. not laser types).

 

What's nice is the ability to gently "fly" the tracking gates onto the target using the timing of button release as your input to track. Especially with our joystick hardware which is generally inferior to the quality of the military hardware making small precise torquing inputs for getting gates on target is difficult. The closer your FPM/VV/TVV is to the LOS to the target the less your parallax motion is and the less the drift both floating and during slew inputs.

[Caldera]

Frederf,

 

Interesting! 

 

I think you meant bolted to the gymbal?  I do not know for sure, but I am going to guess that the gyro itself never changes axis.  It is the gymbal that progresses.

 

I just find it a bit cumbersome:

• Flying the aircraft to line up the target
• Holding DMS up
• Slewing the gate
• Finding the right target
• Wah-Wah

Needs more practice...

 

Yeah, and to boggle your mind some more. (But you probably already know)

 

The torquer motors / electro-magnets / servos apply force 90 degrees offset and behind in relation to the direction of the gyros rotation.  Just like a motorcycle traveling at speed, you lean the motorcycle and the front wheel turns in the direction of the lean.  If you simply try to just turn the wheel this in itself does not actually turn the wheel.  You are simply not strong enough for this to happen.  But instead causes the bike to lean, which causes the wheel to turn.   A funny thing.

 

Caldera

Edited May 21, 2021 by Caldera

[Frederf]

The gimbal mechanism would be the rotatable mount the seeker and gyro assembly is suspended by. Imagine the seeker as a camera shaped like a handheld flashlight. Around the handle portion there is a ring or sleeve that spins. This "flashlight with a spinning handle sleeve" is then gimbal mounted in the rest of the missile. Then that assembly is independent in rotation of the rest of the missile body. You could rotate the missile and the seeker/gyro assembly would remain in the original direction. Changing the seeker axis means changing the gyro axis.

 

I didn't understand the 90 degrees off thing until I played KSP and thought about it in terms of orbital mechanics. An orbiting spacecraft is really just a gyroscope with material missing everywhere except at one place. Tilting the orbital vector in a particular direction requires a plane change burn which is a kind of torque at a longitude 90 degrees different.

[Caldera]

Frederf,

 

Best I can recall, it is called Gyroscopic Force of Translation. 

 

For the INS gyro that I had experience with there was actually two gyros.  One on the vertical and one on the horizontal axis.  The gyros never really changed plane nor axis and neither did the gymbal within the housing, at least by very much.  The gymbal had a very limited range of movement.  The relative movement/position between the housing and the gymbal is what was detected. 

 

What happened is that as the gyros attempted to progress forces were applied to the gymbal to correct this movement/position.  This did two things.  First it re-algned the gymbal with in the housing.  Second, the overall (would be) progression was basically a totalized sum of all these forces required to hold the gyros in that position.

 

So the calculated physical position was derived from a calculated value based on the totalized sums of all the forces required to hold the gyros essentially stable from a designated alignment location.  This was a Naval application, so occasionally that actual position was corrected (via GPS) as there was some error in the process.  The curvature of the Earth and the ships low velocity allowed this type of application.

 

Sometimes I think about the massive gyro that we would call a jet engine.  I would wonder how the damn aircraft is able to maneuver like they do.

 

Caldera

[jaylw314]

4 hours ago, Caldera said:

Sometimes I think about the massive gyro that we would call a jet engine.  I would wonder how the damn aircraft is able to maneuver like they do.

 

Caldera

 

The rotational mass of the fan blades is a lot smaller than a comparable propeller, and the diameter of rotating parts is generally small--the fan might be big, but the faster spinning core blades have a pretty tiny diameter.  There's still an effect, but it's not like it'll help you do snap rolls or anything...

Edited May 26, 2021 by jaylw314