Jump to content

Recommended Posts

So, something I think we can all agree is that refueling is... for a lack of a better way to say it... not that easy to accomplish. One idea I think would help is to take a bit from the SCM, and have an optional helper that pops up on screen to help pilots get into the right position for refueling, regardless of what aircraft they're in.

 

This way I see this, is that you'd have a 'throttle bar' that appears that shows the ideal throttle setting to allow you to catch the tanker, and a diamond that shows where you should be in relation to the tanker for pre-contact, and then, contact. I know not everyone will like this idea, as refueling is a skill that must be learned and mastered. But how many of you would've loved it if, when you had just installed the game, you had the option to have a visual helper to guide you in and link up with the tanker.

 

That being said, I do want to know what you guys think. We have such a thing for the carrier landings, so I think we should have one for for refueling as well (and maybe for normal landings as well when the weather is "less than idea" shall we say?)

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

This way I see this, is that you'd have a 'throttle bar' that appears that shows the ideal throttle setting to allow you to catch the tanker

 

This looks like negative training to me - it isn't what you're supposed to be doing; in general during formation flying and AAR the throttle is always moving back and forth, maybe even in a wide range - there is no magic position and you should be briefly adding/removing power before taking it away/adding it back. 

 

55 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

and a diamond that shows where you should be in relation to the tanker for pre-contact, and then, contact

 

Sure, if we could say get a training gate like box to give you the appropriate positions for observation and pre-contact, that I think would be cool.

 

Personally though, I think the better option would be to have an interactive training mission with an instructor providing you feedback on your positioning and control.

 

55 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

That being said, I do want to know what you guys think. We have such a thing for the carrier landings, so I think we should have one for for refueling as well (and maybe for normal landings as well when the weather is "less than idea" shall we say?)

 

Do we? Only one I can think of is the IFLOLS pop-up, which was mostly done for people who have trouble seeing the IFLOLS, past that there isn't a helper beyond RL systems (such as ICLS).

 

As for landings, we already have the helper gates available, though it might be useful if there were presets for landings.

 

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro

 

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/mBG4dD

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we go again...

 

Popcorn - check

Comfy seat - check

Beverage - check

 

Ok, I'm ready

 

 

 

 

Just in case you wonder what I'm talking about:

 

(Or any of the other AAR threads that didnt end up well)

  • Like 1

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- HP Reverb v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ No war today... the enemy just called in sick ~ GUMMBAH

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

 

This looks like negative training to me - it isn't what you're supposed to be doing; in general during formation flying and AAR the throttle is always moving back and forth, maybe even in a wide range - there is no magic position and you should be briefly adding/removing power before taking it away/adding it back. 

 

 

Sure, if we could say get a training gate like box to give you the appropriate positions for observation and pre-contact, that I think would be cool.

 

Personally though, I think the better option would be to have an interactive training mission with an instructor providing you feedback on your positioning and control.

 

 

Do we? Only one I can think of is the IFLOLS pop-up, which was mostly done for people who have trouble seeing the IFLOLS, past that there isn't a helper beyond RL systems (such as ICLS).

 

As for landings, we already have the helper gates available, though it might be useful if there were presets for landings.

 

 

Ultimately the idea of these visual aids is just to help a pilot get hooked up and start taking fuel. Technically, they don't have to use it, they can either ignore it, or turn it off in the options. The point is simple: make refueling just that little bit easier for those who aren't experienced with it.

 

But then again, while I'm one for options, I also like giving visual aids to assist those people who don't have dozens of hours per week to dedicate to DCS get up to speed just that little bit faster with certain aspects.

2 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Here we go again...

 

Popcorn - check

Comfy seat - check

Beverage - check

 

Ok, I'm ready

 

 

 

 

Just in case you wonder what I'm talking about:

 

(Or any of the other AAR threads that didnt end up well)

 

Good thing I'm not asking for an AAR Autopilot. Just a visual aid to assist those people who want it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I support this idea as it would just be a visual aid for training and not an easy or cheat mode like most of the other threads have been asking for. As "refueling is a skill that must be learned and mastered" at least a visual aid like this would help people to fish for the drogue for them selves.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

Good thing I'm not asking for an AAR Autopilot. Just a visual aid to assist those people who want it.

 

Fair enough. Good luck on your quest 😉

  • Like 1

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- HP Reverb v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ No war today... the enemy just called in sick ~ GUMMBAH

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sirrah said:

Here we go again...

 

Popcorn - check

Comfy seat - check

Beverage - check

 

Ok, I'm ready

 

 

 

 

Just in case you wonder what I'm talking about:

 

(Or any of the other AAR threads that didnt end up well)

 

Where this is something completely different. OP is not asking for some silly cheat or easy mode but an actual learning helper, which i in general fully support from the motivation that's behind there. But... i tend to agree with @Northstar98 here in regards of "negative training".

 

The really biggest problem for everyone with AAR is stick and throttle control. Better said, the lack of.

Like Northstar said, there is not a single magic point, no equilibrium to settle at, its a process of constantly moving stick and throttle depending on variables like previous movement of stick and throttle, wind, changed weight through refueling, also controls tend to lag behind, engine takes time to spool up and such... The only thing people will learn trying to chase the dot really will be: to chase the dot... the same problem will occur here as when you try to chase the boom: overreaction (to compensate too big inputs due to lack of control and not compensating lag) and oscillation as a result.

 

Just watch his controls indicator in this video as well as the play between gun cross and FPM in his HUD (FPM always lagging behind, he's pitching up and the FPM comes up the moment he's already leveling off again -> input lag and he's compensating for it in advance = no oscillation).

Also recognize the engine sound and how he's working the throttle with no pause. Now imagine chasing all that when it is visualized for you in an overlay. People don't dump that idea of you because they hate you, it's just that it does not work out that way.

 

 

Control changes in AAR and formation flight are really tiny usually (having a TMWH i don't even MOVE the stick, i just apply some pressure on it. THAT tiny inputs needed are) and when you did not train your muscle memory for such small inputs, you'll not succeed no matter any indicators or helpers. Having smaller inputs actually does it make even harder, because inaccuracies are more severe in effect.

It's like trying to build a card house with untrained, shaky hands: no laser marker pointing exactly where to put the next cards and no hologram showing where to put your fingers will help you build it. You've got to train and calm your hands first or you'll always crash it. Rest comes just naturally over time.

 

Jump in some plane with airstart/free flight mission, turn off the HUD if its got one, set 90% engine RPM and hands off throttle, try to hold altitude +- 200ft/60m just using VVI, ADI, altimeter for 5 minutes straight with just stick inputs. You'll notice and be surprised how much you actually wobble (ignoring speed and heading changes at this point) and how hard 5 minutes are already. Train that each day for 10 or 20 minutes with full concentration.

Once you feel confident, do same with altitude plus heading adding the HSI to your instruments you watch. No HUD! Heading +-2°.

Once this works well, hands on the throttle again and keep a certain altitude (+-200ft/60m), heading (+-2°) and speed (+-3kts/5kmh) at once.

When you are confident with that, set up a mission with you as wingman of an AI. Start with just a long long straight ahead flight with no changes in heading, speed, altitude. Just stay somehow close to flight lead at first. Stay patient and calm, don't rage because you drift away, lose speed or overshoot. Observe how lag in stick and throttle input relates to changes on the flight path. 20 minutes a day, you'll become better day by day.

 

Once or twice a week try AAR for 10 minutes and observe how things you learned the other days work out for AAR. You'll see improvements there, promised! Just train, stay focused, be patient.

 

  • Like 2

bts_100.jpg.22eae5ddd2a463fc09375990ad043870.jpg

 

Hardware: MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX | Ryzen 5 3600X (6*3.8 Ghz) | 32 GB RAM | MSI Radeon RX5700 | Samsung SSD 860 QVO 1TB | DCS dedicated @ WD Blue 500 GB SSD | Win 10 (64-bit) | TM Warthog HOTAS, MFD and rudder pedals, TrackIR5

 

Wishlist:  Northern Germany/Baltic Sea theater | Full Fidelity Su-25A | Asset packs (80s Iran, Lebanon 1982, Syria 2011+ factions)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a carrier style walk on is a good idea in principle, but dunno how feasible coding it actually wouldbe. Unlike the arrestor wire, it's not a finite point that you only need to reach for a instant at the right instant. AAR, like formation flying, requires constant adjustment over a prolonged period of time. If a person can't manage that in the first place, it's unlikely they're going to be able to stick it in and hold it... if they could, they wouldn't need the aide in the first place.

  • Like 3
Spoiler

tumblr_inline_mpv4v0zasI1rg41uj.gif

The troll formerly known as Zhukov

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...