TWS not working properly?

[Martin88]

Am I doing something wrong? When in TWS (manual mode), the scan will not follow the TDC cursor. It only moves when I press the tdc designate target button ( I think it is called TDC depress).

[Padre Pio]

As far as I can remember - it never did. You have to depress when you want to change it. After switchng to AUTO, you don't have to touch anything.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Padre Pio

[Martin88]

It did. Its even in wags video. When you moved tdc cursor to the right, the scanned zone moved to the right as well, but no longer. I have not played for a few months so maybe it changed.

[Padre Pio]

4 minutes ago, Martin88 said:

When you moved tdc cursor to the right, the scanned zone moved

Are you sure he was not TDC depressing then? I will check tomorrow I think, after my 2.7 will download.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Padre Pio

[Martin88]

I am positive, I just watched the video again, he explains the difference between manual, auto and bias. Watch the following video. Time 4:10

 

 

[AvroLanc]

Read the patch notes. I think this has correctly been changed in 2.7. 

[Padre Pio]

Looking at the video it seems like you said. From my feeling, depressing was necessary but I can be wrong, cause I have replaced F-18 to F-16 about 3 weeks ago  

Interesting anyway, I have to check.

[Mo410]

The TWS scan volume is not supposed to follow the cursor, as you should be able to move the cursor over other contacts without changing where the radar is looking.  TDC action should be required to move the radar FOV.

[Tango3B]

2 minutes ago, Mo410 said:

The TWS scan volume is not supposed to follow the cursor, as you should be able to move the cursor over other contacts without changing where the radar is looking.  TDC action should be required to move the radar FOV.

Exactly! And this is also mentioned somewhere in the patch changelog. All good and working as intended.

[Martin88]

In that case, everything is fine then. Thank you for explanation

[dundun92]

So, BIAS is the only way to adjust the TWS scan centering in azimuth now?

[Jak525]

19 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

So, BIAS is the only way to adjust the TWS scan centering in azimuth now?

No. Use MAN. Depress and release the TDC to set the center.

 

BIAS was previously a pointless mode. Now it has a purpose. The idea of BIAS is to "bias" the AUTO scan center. Basically you can shift it left or right, while still maintaining the L&S and DT2 targets.

[LaFleur]

are you kidding me? Is this abbomination "correct as is?". TWS is supposed to work only in BIAS mode? and why did they not remove "manual" all these years ago??? I don't get it...

[Jak525]

25 minutes ago, LaFleur said:

are you kidding me? Is this abbomination "correct as is?". TWS is supposed to work only in BIAS mode? and why did they not remove "manual" all these years ago??? I don't get it...

This works much better than the previous implementation. Let me lay it out:

 

AUTO - TWS automatically maintains the L&S and DT2 trackfiles.

 

BIAS - from AUTO, the TDC is depressed/released. The scan center is shifted to that azimuth, but the L&S and DT2 are still forcibly maintained in the volume. As such the center may not be fully honored, since maintaining the designated trackfiles is the primary objective of BIAS.

 

MAN - TDC is depressed/released. The scan center is centered at that azimuth without regard for the L&S or DT2 targets.

 

The confusion stems from the fact that the previous implementation of MAN and BIAS were completely and utterly incorrect.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Jak525

[wilbur81]

It is a bummer that, apparently, the real radar does not have a slew-able azimuth feature.  I've loved being able to slew a narrow azimuth around in TWS MAN with a throttle hat without have to TDC press and wait.

Edited April 14, 2021 by wilbur81

[LaFleur]

17 minutes ago, Jak525 said:

This works much better than the previous implementation. Let me lay it out:

 

AUTO - TWS automatically maintains the L&S and DT2 trackfiles.

 

BIAS - from AUTO, the TDC is depressed/released. The scan center is shifted to that azimuth, but the L&S and DT2 are still forcibly maintained in the volume. As such the center may not be fully honored, since maintaining the designated trackfiles is the primary objective of BIAS.

 

MAN - TDC is depressed/released. The scan center is centered at that azimuth without regard for the L&S or DT2 targets.

 

The confusion stems from the fact that the previous implementation of MAN and BIAS were completely and utterly incorrect.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I had been used to old TWS and liked it quite much. Now, I feel like I will be fighting with the controls to lock someone up. With the old implementation I just slewed around with 4B and I was pretty much ok. Now it feels it got much more complicated.

 

Quote

The confusion stems from the fact that the previous implementation of MAN and BIAS were completely and utterly incorrect.

Aaaaand the waited a couple of years for a simple fix, when literally everyone is used to a certain way TWS works.

Edited April 14, 2021 by LaFleur

[Jak525]

7 minutes ago, wilbur81 said:

It is a bummer that, apparently, the real radar does not have a slew-able azimuth feature.  I've loved being able to slew a narrow azimuth around in TWS MAN with a throttle hat without have to TDC press and wait.

 

Spotlight mode accomplishes this exact thing. Press and hold the TDC for more than 1 second. The SPOT cue appears and an X is drawn in the center of the cursor. As a bonus, it's even space stabilized.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Jak525

[wilbur81]

2 hours ago, Jak525 said:

Spotlight mode accomplishes this exact thing. Press and hold the TDC for more than 1 second. The SPOT cue appears and an X is drawn in the center of the cursor. As a bonus, it's even space stabilized.

 

Is it slew-able in SPOT, though? And our old (albeit unrealistic, apparently) setup didn't require a press & hold for 1 second either... 

Edited April 15, 2021 by wilbur81

[Santi871]

12 minutes ago, wilbur81 said:

Is it slew-able in SPOT, though? And our old (albeit unrealistic, apparently) setup didn't require a press & hold for 1 second either... 

 

It is slewable and also azimuth stabilized.

[wilbur81]

23 minutes ago, Santi871 said:

It is slewable and also azimuth stabilized.

Nice. Once you've entered SPOT can you release the TDC depress and just slew?

[Santi871]

Yes

[LastRifleRound]

How many bars is SPOT? Is it just whatever you have the radar already set to or is it a set number of bars regardless of setting?

[Jak525]

1 hour ago, LastRifleRound said:

How many bars is SPOT? Is it just whatever you have the radar already set to or is it a set number of bars regardless of setting?

Uses your own bar and PRF. 22° azimuth.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Jak525

[Wobbly]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb wilbur81:

Nice. Once you've entered SPOT can you release the TDC depress and just slew?

i just had my frist MP flight with it and its just so annoying. i use my SA page on my Left DDI, so you go into spot, then SCS left, check bandit altiude, SCS right, you are out of Spot. You lock something up in Spot, drop the lock instantly, you are out of spot, you press undesignate, you are out of spot. Everytime i have to Press and hold TDC Depress for more than a second. It slows the Process of using SA page together with the Radar down by a huge Ammount. If thats how it is in real life, they really didn't make it user friendly lol, atleast not for stressfull situations

[Jak525]

17 minutes ago, Wobbly said:

i just had my frist MP flight with it and its just so annoying. i use my SA page on my Left DDI, so you go into spot, then SCS left, check bandit altiude, SCS right, you are out of Spot. You lock something up in Spot, drop the lock instantly, you are out of spot, you press undesignate, you are out of spot. Everytime i have to Press and hold TDC Depress for more than a second. It slows the Process of using SA page together with the Radar down by a huge Ammount. If thats how it is in real life, they really didn't make it user friendly lol, atleast not for stressfull situations

DCS is exceptionally clunky and wrong at the moment. The trackfile's altitude should be able to be seen on the Attack format, without going to the SA.

 

Removing TDC priority from the Attack format should exit Spotlight and remove the cursor from the Attack page entirely though. Cursor should only be visible when TDC is assigned to the given format.
 

In the end, the whole swapping between SA and Attack should NOT be a necessary part of the workflow. You should be able to purely reference the Attack format. The advantage of the SA is 1) shows targets behind you and 2) shows some more detailed data on the MSI track like callsign and whatnot.

 

Ultimately, a complete redo of MSI trackfiles is required. You shouldn't need to go the SA format for one thing and the Attack/Radar for another, except for that detailed information the SA provides in the data windows that is not on  the Attack format. In fact, those data windows should display on the SA for the target under cursor on the Attack. So you can simply glance at the SA for info on the target you have under cursor on the Attack, without assigning the TDC to the SA and slewing the cursor on the SA itself. Same for Az/El.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Jak525