Flappie Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, wowbagger said: Can you share what the requirements are for close beta testers? Eg. no mods, hardware minimums etc? I understand if you aren't unable to. I've exchanged with some other testers about our rigs: we all have different machines, and it's a good thing for all DCS users. So I don't think there are any technical requirements, really. Of course, a tester has to accept not using mods when encountering a bug. Otherwise, how would he/she know if the bug comes from the core or from the mod? ED expect more about testers than about their rigs. If you're interested, you can talk about it with BIGNEWY, for instance. Edited May 12, 2021 by Flappie Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowbagger Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Haha, thanks, but no, I'd be the worst tester. I was just wondering if there was some commonality that could be the reason none of you is experiencing this issue. CPU:5600X | GPU:RTX2080 | RAM:32GB | Disk:860EVOm.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Flappie said: Can't be. Logs don't lie. Unless you and the logs are a part of the hallucination...umm...let’s not go there... 1 YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Flappie said: ...We'll see if we get the same amount of DCS generated files. My fear is that the same number of files will be generated but one of ours will be corrupted. But one step at a time. It’s a good place to start. If I have time after work tonight I’ll join this new hunt. YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just tried a full clean run. Al mods, even skins removed. Ran random instant action across all the maps i own (Caucasus, Syria, Persian Gulf, Nevada in that order) and i finally did crash on the 8th mission start in this case. It happened to be the Nevada map. Here is the latest log, less then 15 minutes old, i hope it helps: dcs.log Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II.JG1_Vonrd Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) Well, I think I've found my issue but I don't think it may be helpful for everyone else... I had recently installed a second SSD in order to relieve my C drive which was getting full. I moved LotAtc and OvGME to the new drive. Unfortunately, there were remnants in DCS still looking for those programs. I removed and did a new install of both of those programs completely into the new SSD drive. I know that many of you have said that you have removed any mods that you have. Maybe make sure that ANY programs associated with DCS like those mentioned above as well as others such as SRS, Kneeboard Builder, etc. are removed, check for crash and reinstall each one at a time checking for crash each time. Numerous reload of missions now have no crashes. Fingers crossed. EDIT: I just saw captain_dalan's post above where he had removed pretty much everything but it crashed at 8th time. It's late for me but I'll check again tomorrow. Again... fingers crossed. It was strange that my crashes were exactly as noted in this thread... immediately upon loading a second mission. Edited May 13, 2021 by II.JG1_Vonrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 It took until a restart this morning for it to crash making this truely a 2nd mission crash. Flew about 10 times last night closing the sim and restarting a few times. But no crash until I started the sim up again this morning. dcs.log-20210513-105012.zip DCS Crash.txt YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wali763 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 13 hours ago, Flappie said: Thanks for your investigation, @Wali763. I still have this feeling that DCS is having issues with files it generates by itself. Your test seems to indicate this is clearly the case: no issues for a good amount of time, and then hell happens. If you're up with it, it would be great if you could monitor a brand new user's files as DCS keeps generating its own files. I've found this free software which seems legit, FoldeChangesView (I've been using one of their software for work, USBLogView, and had no issue with it). You tell FolderChangesView where to look, and it lists everything that's being written. Of course, it's better if you close down other apps (Firefox, Discord, etc.). I propose we do the same thing: Create a brand new Windows user. Launch FolderChangesView to monitor "C:\Users\your_brand_new_username\". Launch DCS, load the Caucasus Su-25T instant action called "Free Flight at Mineralnye Vody". Fly for one minute. Hit Escape, then "Fly", over and over until you get the crash. We'll see if we get the same amount of DCS generated files. Here is my first result. Had to cheat a bit though. Here is what I did. New local account. Log in, enter browser (Brave) and download the Folderchangeview-app, unzip and open it. Then TrackIR and then DCS. No changes to DCS whatsoever. Then I did 10 runs of the Su-25-IA-mission, alternatly hitting LShift+R or quit and choose "Fly again". No crash. Then I restarted DCS and did the same 10 missions again. No crash. Restarted DCS again and at the end I added 2 missions with a fast (not one minute in the mission) reload. No crash. Restart DCS again and only did two Su-25 missions and then swapped to the Syria Hornet Freeflight IA-mission (was problematic in the past), with one or two reloads but no crash. Restart DCS go to Hornet Caucasus IA-Mission and at the second mission (reload with LShift + R) DCS frooze at "Mission Load Done" on the loading screen. Saved the log of FolderChangesView to HTML. Its attached. After the Crash I noted the time: 12:43h. I restareted DCS inbetween since I have the feeling, that if it dont crash after about 10 reruns, chances are small that I will crash afterwards. When it crashed before usually it was at the first mission-reload or sometimes at the second. But thats just an unscientific feeling though. report.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wali763 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) This logfile is shorter since it contains less Windows-related stuff. Needed three restarts of DCS though to get to a crash. This is above my normal average where crashes happen more often. report.html Edited May 13, 2021 by Wali763 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattCri Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wali763 said: Here is my first result. Had to cheat a bit though. Here is what I did. New local account. Log in, enter browser (Brave) and download the Folderchangeview-app, unzip and open it. Then TrackIR and then DCS. No changes to DCS whatsoever. Then I did 10 runs of the Su-25-IA-mission, alternatly hitting LShift+R or quit and choose "Fly again". No crash. Then I restarted DCS and did the same 10 missions again. No crash. Restarted DCS again and at the end I added 2 missions with a fast (not one minute in the mission) reload. No crash. Restart DCS again and only did two Su-25 missions and then swapped to the Syria Hornet Freeflight IA-mission (was problematic in the past), with one or two reloads but no crash. Restart DCS go to Hornet Caucasus IA-Mission and at the second mission (reload with LShift + R) DCS frooze at "Mission Load Done" on the loading screen. Saved the log of FolderChangesView to HTML. Its attached. After the Crash I noted the time: 12:43h. I restareted DCS inbetween since I have the feeling, that if it dont crash after about 10 reruns, chances are small that I will crash afterwards. When it crashed before usually it was at the first mission-reload or sometimes at the second. But thats just an unscientific feeling though. report.html 4.25 MB · 7 downloads We might be on to something here... So, there are 3 different shader cache: \AppData\Local\AMD\DxCache (and the nvidia equivalent here) \AppData\Local\D3DSCache \Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\fxo After deleting these caches and the fxo folder dcs regenerate fxo on first load and some new files are different. So far im not getting crashes, finger crossed. In amd/dxcache is immediately recreated a file around 8-9mb 015fc066da3d42e2bcbbd83cd59c3a0318fbc5187b53527d.bin, this is probabily caching dcs shaders Edited May 13, 2021 by MattCri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPACT Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, MattCri said: We might be on to something here... So, there are 3 different shader cache: \AppData\Local\AMD\DxCache (and the nvidia equivalent here) \AppData\Local\D3DSCache \Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\fxo After deleting these caches and the fxo folder dcs regenerate fxo on first load and some new files are different. So far im not getting crashes, finger crossed. Cleared everything, crash on mission reload at first game launch after deleting those caches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) @Wali763, @Flappie OK. I think this approach is far too chaotic to generate any useful data. I have no idea how Flappie could see if extra files are generated, etc with so much going on. There are too many variables. It's sort of a free for all until we get a crash and then--eureka, it crashed! Send the crash report. I would suggest that, after setting up a separate user account, we start the sim and no extras like TIR, etc. Accept the default DCS settings with no changes. Run Flappie's suggested mission for a minute. Exit the mission and hit Fly Again and fly. If no crash, quit to the Desktop. Wait 8 hours, restart the sim. Fly the mission twice. Rinse and repeat until it crashes. That way, it should be easier to tell what's happening and, hopefully, why. Thoughts? Edited May 13, 2021 by Ironhand YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) Regarding the compatibility set to Win 8 workaround: - Same setup as last night. -No mods of any kind. Running 2 missions per map, then switching maps, never running the same mission twice. - Loading times have plummeted, especially on DCS start and DCS exit, as well as on a first map load...... - BUT, ran 20 consecutive new missions, NO entering the options menu, NO deleting any folders. The last 2 missions were flown with fly again; NO CRASHES! Not a single one. If i have the time tonight, i'll try it again, this time with the mods i usually use (T-45, A-4 and Reflected custom skins). Could it be that the crash is related with the Windows updates? Has someone reverted to a pre-April Windows and tried DCS like that? EDIT: to hell with lunch, i just repeated the test, 18 instead of 20 missions this time, but still, no crashes. And i did put all the mods from the above in. So for some of us at least, this is a temporary fix! Edited May 13, 2021 by captain_dalan 2 Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki44 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 On 5/10/2021 at 4:01 PM, Tanuki44 said: .../... I checked 'Compatibility Windows 8' in DCS.EXE properties.... For the moment, no crash .... Had anyone ever tried this? Since 3 days, it removed crashes at home, without being able to say that it will not happen again ... sometimes to change terrain, DCS seems blocked at the beginning of the progress bar, but always ends up starting... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappie Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Ironhand said: Thoughts? We can test both. I'll do the same thing as Wali and see if we get the same kind/amount of files. Then I'll do what you propose. Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowbagger Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Agree. The 'Compatibility Windows 8' seems to do something different. I spent the morning doing a full repair and remove extra files then trying the various other 'fixes' and I could always reliably make the sim crash after running a mission, restarting DCS, running a mission and hitting restart mission - every time. I then tried the 'Compatibility Windows 8' and trying this sequence a few times and there is no crash. Load times are longer/slower, but it seems to work. We'll have to see how long it works for. 1 CPU:5600X | GPU:RTX2080 | RAM:32GB | Disk:860EVOm.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 DCS Crash 5-13-21.txtWell...this is a first. First time I've ever had the 2nd mission crash on a fresh startup. New user acct. Used the default settings in the control panel. Accidentally started the 2nd instant action for the Su-25T, Caucasus. Flew 1 minute. Exited, selected fly again, and froze at mission loaded. Never entered cockpit. DCS Crash 5-13-21.txt dcs.log-20210513-160820.zip YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fra298 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Tanuki44 said: Since 3 days, it removed crashes at home, without being able to say that it will not happen again ... sometimes to change terrain, DCS seems blocked at the beginning of the progress bar, but always ends up starting... Well, Windows 8 compatibility seems to do the trick for me too. Same remarks, real slow loading (same for DCS shutdown). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flia Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I can confirm the Windows 8 compability really works. I loaded mission then Shift+R several time. Then quit mission and again Shift+R multiple times. Then Loaded misson editor, edit nothing fly mission from editor. Then again Shift+R. Ani i havent single crash. After this i restarted DCS ( i dont delete fxo folder on purpose ) and again few Shift+R and again 0 Crashes!!! PC: i7 9700K, 32 GB RAM, RTX 2080 SUPER, Tir 5, Hotas Warthog Throttle, VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base with VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Grip, VKB-SIM T-RUDDER PEDALS MK.IV. Modules : NEVADA, F-5E, M-2000C, BF-109K4, A-10C, FC3, P-51D, MIG-21BIS, MI-8MTV2, F-86F, FW-190D9, UH-1H, L-39, MIG-15BIS, AJS37, SPITFIRE-MKIX, AV8BNA, PERSIAN GULF, F/A-18C HORNET, YAK-52, KA-50, F-14,SA342, C-101, F-16, JF-17, Supercarrier,I-16,MIG-19P, P-47D,A-10C_II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wernst Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 34 minutes ago, Fra298 said: Well, Windows 8 compatibility seems to do the trick for me too. Same remarks, real slow loading (same for DCS shutdown). "windows 8 compatibility mode" ?? Do you really mean that? If so, then the story turns out to be bizarre. What could the devs have done with the 2.7. update that we have to fall back on an antique Windows mode? In the meantime, the proposals for fighting crashes have reached wild proportions. From the simple "Empty xxx" recipes to the "96 hour marathon" session, which seems, btw, most likely to me. (without knowing why) Only the devs know what they did from 2.5.6. to 2.7.xxx. I expect them to solve the problem because they can. (And because I bought the hint, which requires version 2.7.xxx stable !) But I am concerned if that is what is being said by devs and beta testers: We cannot reproduce the crashes. That means in plain language, there is no solution, no quick solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wali763 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, wernst said: "windows 8 compatibility mode" ?? Im trying hard to not even get a bit opitmistic. But for the last two hours (I know, not much) I really very hard tried to crash DCS, using all my normal supects and many reloads, but up to now, no crash. Id say normally I would have crashed DCS by now. Im pretty good at that recently... Dont have to mean nothing of course. Loadtimes are bad and shutting down gives me almost 1 min of a black screen. But if it dont crash, I dont care for that. Edited May 13, 2021 by Wali763 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 20 minutes ago, wernst said: ...windows 8 compatibility mode... Talk about back to the future... 2 YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcrist Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Well, I spoke too soon. The R9 has still not crashed. But one of our R5s is now back to crashing on second mission load. The other R5 will run and run and run, no problem; they are both identical machines, same DCS, same Win version, same everything. The only difference now is that the machine that isn't crashing had a fresh install of 2.7 and then upgrades to the current beta - the machine that is crashing had an upgrade from 2.5 to 2.7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattCri Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 hours ago, XPACT said: Cleared everything, crash on mission reload at first game launch after deleting those caches. crahing again here, im afraid deleting caches is not the solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki44 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) It's just a solution (perhaps) while waiting for better, hope this gives some help to developers. Otherwise, I think it solves some trigger worries in some missions, but can be suggestive ... Edited May 13, 2021 by Tanuki44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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