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Frustrating Sabre


nick10
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After a few days of playing around with the Sabre after a long time off I have a few observations.

 

The module is extremely frustrating for those of us who would love to see a proper Korean War sim (early jets, super props - what’s not to love?).

 

The module is just shy of greatness in my opinion. The exterior is great but the interior needs modernisation. 
 

In addition it is near impossible to use this aircraft currently in any practical sense in combat.  The difficulties in spotting in this game are made worse in a jet combat scenario. The migs come and go too quick and the mig ai dives for the deck immediately - making them impossible to spot.

 

For me this module is something of a frustrating tease.

and Has me dreaming of a proper Korean War module. 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, nick10 said:

After a few days of playing around with the Sabre after a long time off I have a few observations.

 

The module is extremely frustrating for those of us who would love to see a proper Korean War sim (early jets, super props - what’s not to love?).

 

The module is just shy of greatness in my opinion. The exterior is great but the interior needs modernisation. 
 

In addition it is near impossible to use this aircraft currently in any practical sense in combat.  The difficulties in spotting in this game are made worse in a jet combat scenario. The migs come and go too quick and the mig ai dives for the deck immediately - making them impossible to spot.

 

For me this module is something of a frustrating tease.

and Has me dreaming of a proper Korean War module. 

 

 

 

 

 


Ive just shared this, but perhaps its better off here..
 

 

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20 hours ago, nick10 said:

...The difficulties in spotting in this game are made worse in a jet combat scenario. The migs come and go too quick and the mig ai dives for the deck immediately - making them impossible to spot...

I have the same problem with spotting bandits, also in the warbirds. Maybe that's because I lost my hawk eyes somewhere along the last 70-plus years, and maybe my graphics setup isn't good enough. So I use labels and I'm not ashamed at all, and I enjoy the Sabre like I enjoy the warbirds. That excludes me from MP, so be it!

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LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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@StevanJyour video is incredibly clear and crisp. What kind of graphic setup do you use?

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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1 hour ago, LeCuvier said:

@StevanJyour video is incredibly clear and crisp. What kind of graphic setup do you use?


Sorry should have made that clear, This isnt my video, he's a well known youtuber who dogfights.. All day.. All night.
I 100% could NOT kill an FA18, or F16 in a guns only dogfight while in a saber like he does. I dont have the capacity.

His specs are

PC Specifications:
- CPU: Intel i5 8600k @ 4.5GHz Air Cooled
- GPU: MSI Gaming GTX 1080
- RAM: Corsair Vengance LPX DDR4 32gb 2400mhz
- SSD: System Drive 500gb Samsung EVO
- SSD: Storage Drive 480gb Crucial BX100
- SSD: Games Drive 512gb Crucial M500
- SSD: Recording Drive 500gb Crucial MX500
- MOBO: MSI Gaming z370
- PSU: Corsair 750W
- Case: Corsair 460x

────────────────────────

Not particularly 'well specced'.

I think the understanding is, you cant expect to give someone a scalpel and then call him a surgeon.
Training is the only way to get better..
Coax your SA.
If you arent prepared to face real people in multiplayer and actually learn from your mistakes to get better, you just wont get better.

Im not against the spotting argument, i just dont understand how HellReign has no issues shooting down FA18's in a Mig15 if spotting really is that bad.. If you watch his videos youll see he always has a sense of awareness in any jet he's in.

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  When the F-86 Sabre first came out my brother and I bought it,  had fun for months mostly doing ground pounding.  then we really got into the dog fighting and I admit dog fighting wasn't my strong suit in this particular air frame.  Practice and determination made me a much better, more deadlier dog fighter, especially online with real people, as the A.I. can do maneuvers that would make any human pilot pass out, not to mention climb like a rocket. I also got better at spotting aircraft friend or foe.  Don't give up, and I'm sure you'll eventually get much better as well.  Cheers mate.

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Asus Z170 Pro Gaming Board, Intel i7-6700K CPU, 2 x 16GB DDR4 RAM, Zotac Amp Extreme Edition 1080 TI, Oculus Rift S, Windows 10 smilewink.gif

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If my monitor (Acer XB270HU with a GTX 1080 8GB) displayed the bandits as clearly in the sim as I see them in the video I could fight without labels.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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1 hour ago, LeCuvier said:

If my monitor (Acer XB270HU with a GTX 1080 8GB) displayed the bandits as clearly in the sim as I see them in the video I could fight without labels.

At what resolution is your monitor running and is your CPU overclocked? Up to 1440p resolution it should be not impossible to get such clear visuals with your system without too much compromises in quality.

 

But what I recognized in the dogfight video above: besides that this guy has real good skills in keeping an eye on its target he is flying a lot under blacking out his visuals. Maybe DCS isn't simulating something right but in real live this would exhaust him pretty fast, esp. in a Jet fighter of that era with not that much help to compensate for high G‘s and this would also affect his SA and orientation in the 3 dimensions a lot more than it's – if – simulated at all, not to mention how he could keep track on his targets even through several seconds of complete blackout...


Edited by schmiefel
typo fixed
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Primary: i7 11700k@5.1GHz on MSI Z590 Gaming Force MB| 32 GB DDR4-3200 | PowerColor RX5700XT Red Devil | 1x 32"@2560*1440 + 1x24"@1980*1200 |

Secondary: i7 6700K@4.8GHz | 64 GB DDR4-2400 | MSI GTX 1060 Armor OC | SSD-500/1000GB | 1x49" 32:9 Asus X49VQ 3840x1080
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I use 2560 x 1440 resolution. My CPU (Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790 CPU @ 3.60GHz, 16GB RAM) is not overclocked.

What struck me is the clarity of the scenery in the video displayed on my monitor, compared with the scenery rendered in DCS World on that same monitor.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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Maybe just compare his DCS settings (mentioned in the video description) to yours. Plus: maybe he has done some downsampling for the stream / recording that polished the graphics slightly and removed flicker a bit? With my system DCS looks pretty decent on a screen in 1440p (2560x1440 16:9) while VR takes quite a toll on the graphics quality to achieve reasonable FPS...

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Primary: i7 11700k@5.1GHz on MSI Z590 Gaming Force MB| 32 GB DDR4-3200 | PowerColor RX5700XT Red Devil | 1x 32"@2560*1440 + 1x24"@1980*1200 |

Secondary: i7 6700K@4.8GHz | 64 GB DDR4-2400 | MSI GTX 1060 Armor OC | SSD-500/1000GB | 1x49" 32:9 Asus X49VQ 3840x1080
Devices: TM HOTAS WARTHOG/Cougar Throttle+Stick, F-18-Grip | VPC: ACE2 Rudder / WarBRD Base / T-50CM2 Base with 50mm ext. / Mongoos T-50CM and VFX Grip / T-50CM3 Throttle | DelanClip IR-Tracker | Rift S

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On 4/13/2021 at 1:52 AM, nick10 said:

After a few days of playing around with the Sabre after a long time off I have a few observations.

 

The module is extremely frustrating for those of us who would love to see a proper Korean War sim (early jets, super props - what’s not to love?).

 

The module is just shy of greatness in my opinion. The exterior is great but the interior needs modernisation. 
 

In addition it is near impossible to use this aircraft currently in any practical sense in combat.  The difficulties in spotting in this game are made worse in a jet combat scenario. The migs come and go too quick and the mig ai dives for the deck immediately - making them impossible to spot.

 

For me this module is something of a frustrating tease.

and Has me dreaming of a proper Korean War module. 

 

 

 

 

 

Nick10,  I'm able to agree in part but not fully with you here. 

 

The Sabre and Mig15 modules are a rare pairing in DCS. The Caucasus map has been home to the Korea theatre (Korea1952 server for MP). We'd all over a Korea dedicated map to further enhance this early 1950's air combat experience in DCS.

 

The very few technical issues that exist with the Sabre are not enough to ground her. Sadly one is a  .50 cal bullet drop issue that in actuality, does not prevent flying her effectively but you do have to compromise with you point of aim which is frustrating, especially given the fix that is known but has not been implemented. The other issue is a 'sound bug' that comes and goes. Both these issues have threads under the Bugs section for the Sabre.

 

Indeed, ' just shy of greatness' is right on! We agree again.

As for interior 'modernisation' you'd need to flesh this comment out with details of what you mean. For my own experience, the cockpit is very good. Note, there are mods out there to swap the cockpit to a black cockpit if a change is what you're after sometime. 

 

"near impossible to use this aircraft currently in any practical sense in combat'. Oh Oh ...This is where I have to a disagree.

Note: You do go on to refer to 'spotting' which is not specific to the Sabre (or any aircraft module) so this needs it's own answer.

The DCS Sabre, as it stands today, is absolutely capable to deliver a full and equal match up,  when put up against the Mig15, it's expected opponent. 

Two, like for like, skilled human pilots up against each other and unless one loses patience or makes a mistake, it's a real cat and mouse game up there that will have your heart rate amped just watching it. The Sabre is truely a very capable platform in a fight against it's expected opponent. 

 

As for spotting, you give away a little in your comment to suggest you are flying in single player. Even in MP, the spotting debates rage and in SP, up again the AI and their tactics, I get your frustrations.

Part of the spotting topic is PC hardware and sim Settings, part is a 'seat time' thing (getting used to recognizing the enemy tactics, learning where they are likely to be at any point in the dogfight, maneuvering your own plane to a position that is most optimal ....) and part is entirely in the lap of the gods meaning, at some point in time, you are going to loose visual on the bandit not matter what you do and you'd better have a plan for when this happens 'cos it happens often.  (If you can't see him, bet your shirt he's on your six and all that good advise)

 

For hardware and settings, the forum has lots of threads on this topic. Do come back with questions if you need help.

 

S!

 

 

 

 

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There are several known issues regarding the MiG and Sabre as indicated above. If you can do a little editing of the .lua files, you can practice more offline with a little more noob friendly settings, flight models, bullet, and gun dynamics. There are more threads here on the topic as well and I made a few posts of my MiG SFM edits that helped a lot. G limits, gun, and bullet edits make for a much more satisfying experience. As far as spotting goes, don't sweat using padlock especially if you don't have a VR cockpit or goggles. Remember, the DCS modules, as published are not perfect, so you don't have to be either. Muzzle velocity, g effects, transonic aerodynamics, and tactics are massive topics in play here that just aren't modeled clearly enough to feel guilty about what edits you may make. Seriously though, check my sig line and you will see perhaps the most important thing Sabre pilots thought of in actual combat over MiG alley. It is not accurately modeled in this sim. Col. "Boots" Blesse is my source. 😉 

Hehe, sig lines aren't visible anymore? ... "Put that sucker in a 4G turn and keep it there. I'm on my way!" The MiG could not pull enough lead to hit you with it's canon in that configuration...period. It's called physics.

 

 


Edited by Squiffy

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

It's perfectly ordinary banter Squiffy, "Bally Jerry, pranged his kite, right in the 'how's your father.'" - Monty Python, RAF Banter Sketch.

Squiffy, a. slang. 1. Intoxicated; drunk. 2. Askew, skew-whiff. - OED

 

"Put that sucker in a 4G turn and keep it there!!" - Maj. Gen. "Boots" Blesse

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