Sad about the MiG-29

[Alita]

2 minutes ago, Top Jockey said:

 

Sicher.

 

Wenn Sie mir von einer PC-Sim der MiG-29 mit vollständigeren Systemen / Funktionen und Grafiken erzählen können, die so gut sind wie die DCS, die wir haben, höre ich ...

It's not about whether it's good or not, it's about the fact that it's not fully operable.

[norman99]

2 hours ago, Alita said:

It's not about whether it's good or not, it's about the fact that it's not fully operable.

It’s not about that at all.

 

ED make it perfectly clear that this module is part of the FC3 package, and hence has a lower level of detailed associated with it. This is no secret. If anything, the $15 price vs $80 price for a full fidelity module should indicate such.

 

We understand your frustration, but things are going in circles now. You may not want to hear this, but ultimately this is about not doing a couple minutes of due diligence before clicking the purchase button, and unfortunately that’s on you and you alone.

[Zeagle]

I love the MiG-29. I think they did a great job with it and all the FC3 birds. Sure they could be updated. And I would love a fully functional cockpit and systems. But I think you (the OP) and others fall prey to marketing terms like "full fidelity" and the like. The MiG-29 is definitely a high fidelity simulation of the Fulcrum, clickable cockpit or not. 

[Neurus]

In short this is a thread about the frustration of a buyer who didn't do due diligence despite the many available resources, hints, and indications, unwilling to give it a try for the sake of (and I quote) Elite PvP Training.

 

<sarcasm>

I, too, love to wait 8 minutes for the Mirage INS to align, every time.

 

(fast align is for losers, give me 1 meter accuracy or GTFO!)

</sarcasm>

 

 

[TobiasA]

I bought the MiG-29 from my Miles from several High Fidelity modules and I am slowly falling in love with it. 

Apart from having a clickable cockpit and complex avionics, she is well made with a good flight model, wing flexing and realistic and full fidelity weapons. 

[Zeagle]

+1 Tobias

 

[TotenDead]

11 часов назад, TobiasA сказал:

with a good flight model, 

Lol

[TobiasA]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb TotenDead:

Lol

Come on, I've seen worse.

 

It's $7.50 on sale. Where I live, it is the price of a burger with fries. Like... Who am I to complain? It is still an FC3 module, but the flight model isn't bad for that. It comes close to what we know about the MiG-29, it's probably the best implementation of the MiG-29 that ever came to desktop computers.

Edited April 25, 2021 by TobiasA

[XPACT]

47 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

12 hours ago, TobiasA said:

with a good flight model, 

Lol

 

Can you elaborate your lol what's so wrong with MiG29 flight model?

Edited April 25, 2021 by XPACT

[TotenDead]

Только что, XPACT сказал:

 

Can you elaborate you lol what's so wrong with MiG29 flight model?

Well... Long story short - Mig-29 pilot on russian forum says it's far from being close to the real aircraft: unlike IRL mig-29, MiG-29ED tries to kill you on take off and landings and is oddly controllable in flight. Other people find (or found not that long time ago) landing strange at least as MiG falls on the ground because of the "reversed" ground effect 

[XPACT]

3 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

MiG-29ED tries to kill you on take off and landings

 

Hmmm, I never had problems with take offs, landings were a bit challenging at first but nowadays I can reliably approach and land at 270km/h, 250km/h as per manual is still possible but AOA will be around 15deg and tail (engines) very close to hitting the ground

I'll have to test that reverse ground effect tho to see if it really pulls you down, about overall control in flight that is hard to judge for me because I can only look at IRL videos and try to compare, I can't feel if the jet is doing what it should but I also think that flight gear you use is very important especially with MiG29, to achieve full precision 200mm extension on joystick seems like a must

 

Good video to somewhat judge take off and landing in the real thing

[TobiasA]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb TotenDead:

Well... Long story short - Mig-29 pilot on russian forum says it's far from being close to the real aircraft: unlike IRL mig-29, MiG-29ED tries to kill you on take off and landings and is oddly controllable in flight. Other people find (or found not that long time ago) landing strange at least as MiG falls on the ground because of the "reversed" ground effect 

 

Before or after the PFM?

I'm a total noob on the plane and the one takeoff I messed up was one were I actually forgot to turn on the right engine which ended in desaster.
The only thing you need to take care off is to not exceed 15° AOA.

Edited April 25, 2021 by TobiasA

[TotenDead]

18 минут назад, XPACT сказал:

 

Hmmm, I never had problems with take offs, landings were a bit challenging at first but nowadays I can reliably approach and land at 270km/h, 250km/h as per manual is still possible but AOA will be around 15deg and tail (engines) very close to hitting the ground

I'll have to test that reverse ground effect tho to see if it really pulls you down, about overall control in flight that is hard to judge for me because I can only look at IRL videos and try to compare, I can't feel if the jet is doing what it should but I also think that flight gear you use is very important especially with MiG29, to achieve full precision 200mm extension on joystick seems like a must

 

Good video to somewhat judge take off and landing in the real thing

Well, i suppose you just got used to. What the pilot was referring to was that the real thing lands like a trainer plane - super easily, unlike our version. However, i need to mention that 2.7 improved the landing a little. Here's a link to the topic, MiG-29 pilot is Fighter29
 

 

15 минут назад, TobiasA сказал:

 

Before or after the PFM?

 

After, of course

[draconus]

Definitely better control in 2.7. Still a bit sensitive but no PIOs. Not a DCS beginner friendly aircraft.

[TobiasA]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb TotenDead:

Well, i suppose you just got used to. What the pilot was referring to was that the real thing lands like a trainer plane - super easily, unlike our version. However, i need to mention that 2.7 improved the landing a little. Here's a link to the topic, MiG-29 pilot is Fighter29
 

 

After, of course

 

Problem is I speak german, english, a little swedish and a few words french, but no russian

Would have to ask one of my neighbors.

But then: When in doubt always go to what the real life pilot says.

 

I must say that I have the MiG-29 for about not even a week now, didn't even do the tutorial and just landed based on what I know from other planes. Scratched the tail a little on my first try. I do not know any russian planes except the Su-25T, all my experience is western aircraft. I'm used to nautical miles and feet instead of km and m.

Fun fact: There isn't even a training mission for landing the plane. My landings are usually above 260km/h but touchdowns in the F-16 are up to 165kts which is about 290-300km/h so I didn't bother with that. It does however have a somehow weird ground effect, which makes my landings not very backbone-friendly.

Well it might not be perfect but given I literally got it for free and it costs 15 bucks if not in sale, it is outstanding for its price. It is not as bad as the creator of this thread says it is.

I personally was surprised how good it actually is, without saying it is perfect, and I think I'll take it for a ride more often. I expected some arcade stuff, and got surprised with a model that actually makes sense, has wing flexing and even models loss of roll authority on high AOA's. It actually makes sense what happens in this aircraft, and I did not expect that.

However, I think that russian aircraft are largely underrated and deserve better than being an FC3 module without being fully clickable and without a flight model that lives up to the expectations of the dogfight crowd.

I mean, look at the F-16 section. Literally everything in it circles around small deviations in the lift curve below mach 0.5... FC3 owners usually don't expect so much from a module. I'd love to see a full fidelity MiG-29 model tho.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by TobiasA

[TobiasA]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb draconus:

Definitely better control in 2.7. Still a bit sensitive but no PIOs. Not a DCS beginner friendly aircraft.

 

The Su-33 is probably a bit easier to fly, but.. Which aircraft would you consider "beginner friendly"? Fighter planes are bitches because they go for the edge. The Su-25(T) is easy to fly and beginner friendly, but the design is completely different and focuses on getting in and out, surviving battle damage and still being able to fly and not on going supersonic in the stratosphere. Probably western planes are easier to fly due to their fly-by-wire which keeps you from doing bad things, but the MiG-29 is -besides being a bit bitchy during landings- pretty easy to fly.

PIO's are a thing I learned in the F-16 tho. Quite common in aerial refueling for beginners.

[Черный Дракул]

On 4/13/2021 at 4:32 PM, Alita said:

Mig-29 would be interesting I love them too but only in full version.

You might want to wait for it for several more years (10+?)

[TotenDead]

1 час назад, Черный Дракул сказал:

You might want to wait for it for several more years (10+?)

Полноценный Миг 29 по планам должен быть в EA в этом или следующем году

[draconus]

2 hours ago, TobiasA said:

Which aircraft would you consider "beginner friendly"?

Considering FC3 it'd be F-15C - no trimming needed, flying by the flight path marker, responsive throttles, very forgiving. Not technically FBW but acts like one. A-10A is also very easy wrt flying. Russian aircraft have their "character" and need more taming, trimming can be hard to grasp for beginner, no flight path marker to show where it goes... still Su-25/T and 27/33 are very enjoyable to fly and imho easier than Mig.

Mig-29's have the sudden loss of stabilators authority in ground effect so you need to pull the stick aft more in the right moment to keep it from dropping.

Btw: FC3 aircraft use Professional Flight Model almost on par with HiFi modules.

Edited April 25, 2021 by draconus

[Zeagle]

Im away from home right now, but i will definitely upload some MiG29 takeoff and landing videos when i get back. I do not find it difficult at all. It is different to other ships though. So I can see where some might have trouble at first. The more I fly it the better I like it. 

 

 

Btw, I own practically all the modules. I actually prefer the Russian FC3 birds to many of the "hifi" model's 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Zeagle

[Zeagle]

I did find a Russian youtube video of real life Su25s snaking all over the runway and even into the grass on landing. So i know ED did their research when they built these FC3 birds. I will keep searching for that video

 

[Skysurfer]

 

1 hour ago, Zeagle said:

Im away from home right now, but i will definitely upload some MiG29 takeoff and landing videos when i get back. I do not find it difficult at all. It is different to other ships though. So I can see where some might have trouble at first. The more I fly it the better I like it. 

 

 

The 29 in DCS is one of those modules where a good hotas (preferably mechanical with good tension) really can make the difference. If you get used to the way it flies after a couple flights I don't see how once can have issues with it. Had no issues with the T16000M HOTAS years ago and no issues with my new Verpil setup now.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Skysurfer

[TheCabal]

On 4/11/2021 at 8:21 PM, Alita said:

I bought the module MiG-29 for DCS because I found this plane as interesting but then I saw that it is only FC3 plane with a cockpit without function in this state, this plane is not interesting for me and not to need so I do not want to fly it.

Very sad for this plane I expected more. 

 

I don't fly FC3 and don't want to but I want to learn to fly it without help.
I hope DCS makes the Mig-29 aircraft a better module without FC3. 

I am disappointed about this

 

Thank You

 

FC3 modules (MiG-29, A-10, F-15 etc.) are a good way to get into DCS. And let's be real: Beyond take-off, you are focussed on your sensors and weaponry incl. tactics with wingman anyway, so no real loss here unless you want to startup your fighter 10 times in a row because something didn't work out in a mission.