F-14 - Energy or Angles?

[maxsin72]

5 hours ago, Spurts said:

@maxsin72  I don't play on public servers.  I play on private servers where my friends and I play custom missions, do flight/weapons training, or sometimes just go sightseeing.  I don't get to fly that much right now, just one or two hour long flights in a week to teach my son the Tomcat, so in the near future it will be mostly training missions to relearn weapon systems.

I understand, anyway it's a pity you don't play on public servers, you lose really much fun and, at the same time, there is a lot to learn or to teach. I hope you'll change your mind, if yes, we''ll meet on justdogfight or mobettabeta server

[captain_dalan]

1 hour ago, Spurts said:

Thrust is huge.  Don't get hung up on the static numbers though, the TF30 makes way less than 20,000 installed at 0 speed and way more than 20,900 at peak.  Case in point, the F110-GE-400 numbers of 23,400 and 30,200 are uninstalled static and installed at 0.9M at sea level IIRC.  

 

 

This...
And induced drag rises sharply at higher alpha, so pull hard and no thrust will keep you from bleeding. The difference is in how fast you can get those knots back, but you sustainable capability is fairly similar with both engines.

[Rick50]

1 hour ago, Spurts said:

Don't get hung up on the static numbers though, the TF30 makes way less than 20,000 installed at 0 speed and way more than 20,900 at peak.  Case in point, the F110-GE-400 numbers of 23,400 and 30,200 are uninstalled static and installed at 0.9M at sea level IIRC.  

 

Hmm, interesting... I didn't realise that max thrust was so very different under such changed conditions!  I guess it makes sense, different volumes of air consumed, means different volumes of fuel can be burned for a given time period which means different work performed. Also could maybe result in different fuel-air mix, which would affect work output... a little like piston engines having different horsepower depending on atmospheric density, assuming you don't have a turbo or supercharger to compensate (whether in a car or plane)... I just kept refering to the widely published static thrust and never really thought about how a turbojet actually performs in the complex real world rather than in simple open source Janes listings!! 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Rick50

[jcdata]

Tf30 installed at mmy. At sea level 28000 lbs..thus 56klbs

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[Quid]

7 hours ago, Spurts said:

Thrust is huge.  Don't get hung up on the static numbers though, the TF30 makes way less than 20,000 installed at 0 speed and way more than 20,900 at peak.  Case in point, the F110-GE-400 numbers of 23,400 and 30,200 are uninstalled static and installed at 0.9M at sea level IIRC.  

 

Anyway, the A+, B, D models of Tomcat can energy fight in the vertical reasonably well.  The A model does not have the ability to transition into a vertical fight well.  You can try to start the fight that way, but once it goes into a turning fight the vertical is pretty much off limits if you are up against a 4th gen fighter.

Installed thrust for the TF-30 at mil power is 10,875lbs at 0M at SL; Max AB is 17,077lbs at the same, and about 28,000 at 0.9M at SL.  Installed thrust for the F110 at mil power is 13,800lbs at 0M at SL; Max AB is 23,600lbs at the same, and about 30,200lbs at 0.9M at SL.

 

EDIT: Bear in mind these are all performance points - thrust is highly dynamic; described by a curve, increasing as speed increases, decreasing as altitude increases, and/or at speeds where the inlet changes, affecting airflow to the engine, etc.  Also, an individual engine might be worn, or new, or the weather will affect the dynamic pressure, etc., so it's not going to be exact.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Quid
Added amplification.