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F86 radar gunsight solution incorrect


some1
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Another aircraft that fails the basic gunnery test.

 

It is not possible to hit a target using the radar sight, even a non evading one. All bullets fly behind the target.

 

I set up a mission with AI set to a constant, level, 3g turn. I followed the target with a stable tracking solution, zeroed closure rate, textbook conditions, yet despite that all bullets miss. 

 

Track attached.

 

Screen_210409_223403.jpg

Screenshot 2021-04-09 223536.jpg

86.trk

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Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

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Is this sight a full RADAR computing sight with lead compensation, or is it just a gyro sight with automatic ranging updates provided by the RADAR? Because if it's the latter, wouldn't you have to put in some lead yourself? 

 

This also applies to your F-5E-3 thread and your MiG-21bis thread.

 

EDIT: It seems the sight does calculate lead based on the attackers G.


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, CA, NS430, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/bG9bBc

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31 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Is this sight a full RADAR computing sight with lead compensation, or is it just a gyro sight with automatic ranging updates provided by the RADAR? Because if it's the latter, wouldn't you have to put in some lead yourself? 

In a stable tracking situation like this you don't have to apply additional lead, even with WWII gyro gunsights not equipped with radar. The K-14 sights in DCS P47 and P51 work just fine in this mission. 

 

Now, taking a snapshot against a target travelling in a different plane of motion, moving across your scope, that's a different matter. 

Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

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Ahh okay, I edited my post as it seems the sight does compensate for lead based on your G, which if it's the same as the targets G (obviously in the same direction) as it is here, then yes, no additional lead should be required.

 

So yes, something is wrong with all of these gunsights.

 

10 minutes ago, Buzzles said:

Yes, it's been broken now for 5 years:

 

Discussion in this thread, as the gunsight isn't off per-se, but the bullets are too slow:

 

 

Interesting, but does this apply to the F-5E-3 and MiG-21bis too? As they all seem to have the same issue (links are above).


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, CA, NS430, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/bG9bBc

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I don't know, I think every aircraft is a unique case that has to be investigated, so I created several bug reports. I don't know if they use some common function provided by DCS SDK, or every developer has to make something himself from scratch (and then they forgot to readjust the sights if the weapon ballistic properties are modified). 

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Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

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some1, thanks for taking time to report this!

One of the most important systems on the F-86F not working correctly for years.

Would anyone tolerate incorrect ACM modes on Hornet or Viper? On a gunfighter platform such as the Sabre it
is extremely important that the sight works as advertised.  

It drives me totally nuts that issues like this are left unresolved when there are lots of time over to create
new WWII propellers and other stuff.

ED PLEASE FIX, WE HAVE WAITED LONG ENOUGH
 


Edited by Schmidtfire
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On 4/10/2021 at 8:47 AM, Schmidtfire said:

some1, thanks for taking time to report this!

One of the most important systems on the F-86F not working correctly for years.

Would anyone tolerate incorrect ACM modes on Hornet or Viper? On a gunfighter platform such as the Sabre it
is extremely important that the sight works as advertised.  

It drives me totally nuts that issues like this are left unresolved when there are lots of time over to create
new WWII propellers and other stuff.

ED PLEASE FIX, WE HAVE WAITED LONG ENOUGH
 

 

It's obscene how long this has taken. If this is the kind of attention gunfighters are due, WEW I have a hard time recommending the WWII side to newbies.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/12/2021 at 5:40 AM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

It's obscene how long this has taken. If this is the kind of attention gunfighters are due, WEW I have a hard time recommending the WWII side to newbies.

 

Absolutely agreed.

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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, CA, NS430, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/bG9bBc

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Wow, I originally reported the pipper being off 5 years ago, I completely forgot... I hope, as you guys said, it is because of the bullets being too slow, and when that bug is fixed we'll have accurate gunnery.

 

In the meantime I've gotten used to further leading my target, but that's just a workaround.

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On 8/6/2021 at 5:44 PM, Wolf_ofthe_North said:

As someone who plays about 20 hours a week dogfighting in the F-86, my hunch is that once the bullet issue is fixed the gunsight will work. 

Assuming that happens. It's been years and they refuse to fix it. We'll get someone here claiming it didn't make the fix this time round, but I'd like to know why it's been backburnered for this long.

 

Until they fix it, no ED modules for me, at all.

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