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Winwing Left and Right Throttle Axis Sensors aren't tracking equally even after calibrating them.


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Good evening all. So I bought a Winwing Super Taurus Throttle setup (used, likely a mistake) and almost immediately noticed that when viewing the throttle axis map via the SimAppPro software the right throttle advances "faster" than the left throttle through the center of the throttle range. This is also noticeable in game when looking at the rpm on the IFEI (hornet) as well as the pop-up throttle display (cntrl + enter).  Has anyone else noticed or had this issue?  How did you resolve it? (I assume it was handled via customer service). I do have an email into WinWing customer service but I'm not hopeful that it will get resolved through them. 

 

I calibrated this throttle several times via the WinWing software and confirmed the latest drivers/firmware are installed. I ran through the calibration steps multiple times with no change to the delta between the two axes.  After every calibration, the right axis always advances ahead of the left axis through the middle of the range.

 

This shows the right throttle is advanced further than the left throttle (with both handles physically in the same position). 

 

image.png

 

This shows the delta between the two sensors through the center of travel. 

 

image.png

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Is it really an issue when flying?

I guess that there is always a slight difference between the two due to tolerance between both throttles.

I don't have a WinWing but my Warthog throttle shows the same when coupled, main reason is that the throtlle that "hangs" on the other throttle always runs a bit behind then the one you push.

Also, if i uncouple the throttles the difference is even a tad bigger because you need to apply the same mount of force on both left and right throttles at the same time through the entire axis range. I'm not that good...LOL.

 

image.png

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How did you calibrate??

 

The throttle is calibrated from idle to max (thru the A/B stop)

 

The afterburner is calibrated from idle to the A/B stop

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Try this.

1. Tighten up the throttle decoupler hex screw (left side of throttle, clockwise rotation).

2. Calibrate with Winwing app, don’t split the throttles just keep them together during the process and calibrate each of the throttle axis while moving both throttles at the same time.

3. Loosen that screw from 1. based on your preference.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 9900K/3090, 32GB RAM.

Joystick bases: TMWx2, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMWx2, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator RS Linear Throttle (soon)

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Yes, I calibrated several times using the WW app with the appropriate individual and combined steps. So, I calibrated from Idle to Max for each individually as well as calibrated them both from Idle to AB. The right throttle leads the left throttle by a significant amount consistently after each calibration attempt, both when coupled and when uncoupled. However, the right throttle only leads the left throttle through the middle of the throttle range (in effect it "advances" faster than the left for the same physical movement). At the start and finish (Idle to Max) the throttle curves are essentially the same. Noticeable in the game. I ended up just applying a different curve to the right throttle in game to compensate for delta between the two. I've only used the WW and TM so maybe this is just a relatively normal issue. 

Thanks for the recommendation. I did actually do this as well with no change in the behavior (consistent lead on the right throttle through the middle of the throttle range from IDLE to Max.   Was able to compensate with DCS curves set up for each individual axis. 

 

7 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Try this.

1. Tighten up the throttle decoupler hex screw (left side of throttle, clockwise rotation).

2. Calibrate with Winwing app, don’t split the throttles just keep them together during the process and calibrate each of the throttle axis while moving both throttles at the same time.

3. Loosen that screw from 1. based on your preference.

 

 

9 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

Is it really an issue when flying?

I guess that there is always a slight difference between the two due to tolerance between both throttles.

I don't have a WinWing but my Warthog throttle shows the same when coupled, main reason is that the throtlle that "hangs" on the other throttle always runs a bit behind then the one you push.

Also, if i uncouple the throttles the difference is even a tad bigger because you need to apply the same mount of force on both left and right throttles at the same time through the entire axis range. I'm not that good...LOL.

 

image.png

Normally not an issue but it actually was noticeable in game. I did tweak the curve settings in DCS to compensate and both throttles generally trend the same now with the tweaks. 

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I had the exact same problem, went away after tightening up that screw and recalibration.  On the other hand, one of my TMW throttles behaves just like that even with recal, you can try to fix this by adding a curve to axis input in DCS setting to make them match.

PC: 9900K/3090, 32GB RAM.

Joystick bases: TMWx2, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMWx2, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator RS Linear Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro/Pro 2, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index

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39 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I had the exact same problem, went away after tightening up that screw and recalibration.  On the other hand, one of my TMW throttles behaves just like that even with recal, you can try to fix this by adding a curve to axis input in DCS setting to make them match.

Unfortunately no changes even after tightening the screw and recalibrating. I maybe got "lucky'' with the TM that it didn't have the issue but I guess there is a reason in DCS for the individual curves. I was able to get them to match reasonably well by setting a custom curve. Thanks for the feedback!

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it adds realism... different spool up are not uncommon on twins. 

On 737 classics for ex, it is always the case and throttle stagger is a thing we live with (within tolerances of course) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm wondering how the physical alignment is between the throttle arms and the HALL sensor. Could one be out of "alignment" physically just a bit. I don't have a schematic but would be interesting to see if there is a variance between left and right.

 

 


Edited by Catseye
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Might have just found a fix. I’ve had the throttle over a year now, had this issue right from the beginning, tried the above calibration solutions but never got satisfying results (my preferred set up is with no spacers, throttles de-coupled). 


I would recommend trying the detent calculator found in user files. Run through all your 3 calibrations and set your afterburner ratio to 75 in simapp. Then run dcs and follow the instructions for the detent calculator. For both throttles I got the same results of 0-10-19-29-39-49-59-70-80-90-100, which only makes the midrange difference worse. You have to even the curve out in the middle, what i did was kept the left curve as is, and changed the right: 0-10-19-29-39-49-60-70-80-90-100. This gave me almost perfectly matching thrust thru the throttles entire throw, only at around 76-80% the left will take very slightly longer to spool up to match the right, but it’s less than a second. 
 

Probably could tweak that even more and get them to match perfectly, I find I spend significantly more time a day trying to fix/tweak everything than actually doing the flying thing 🙃🤔
 

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Same problem here. 

 

It seems like the calibration via SimAppPro doesn't work at all. Even if I set the range differently every time, it always shows same result(probably default).

The gap between the XY axis is not so big so it won't be a serious issue for now but I don't think the calibration process works properly for now.

Or did I miss something...?

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  • 3 weeks later...

try calibrate your throttle in sync mode:

 

0. close simapppro if it has been running.

1. open C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Roaming\SimAppPro\config.json with notepad++

2. change ["IsSyncCalibration": true,] to ["IsSyncCalibration": true,] 

	"IsAdvanced": false,
	"LightEnduranceTest": false,
	"DCSPath": "",
	"IsSyncCalibration": true,
	"Application": {},

DO NOT modify other lines or you may break the software

3. Save file

4. running the simapppro and and clibrate  with sync mode (sync Rx+Ry axis)

5. enjoy the flying

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On 5/15/2021 at 12:21 PM, RglsPhoto said:

try calibrate your throttle in sync mode:

 

0. close simapppro if it has been running.

1. open C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Roaming\SimAppPro\config.json with notepad++

2. change ["IsSyncCalibration": true,] to ["IsSyncCalibration": true,] 


	"IsAdvanced": false,
	"LightEnduranceTest": false,
	"DCSPath": "",
	"IsSyncCalibration": true,
	"Application": {},

DO NOT modify other lines or you may break the software

3. Save file

4. running the simapppro and and clibrate  with sync mode (sync Rx+Ry axis)

5. enjoy the flying

Tried this but didn’t seem to make a big difference, atleast looking at the raw values in the simapp software. Is this supposed act like an axis sync similar to the virpil software? 

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2 hours ago, rysullivan8 said:

Tried this but didn’t seem to make a big difference, atleast looking at the raw values in the simapp software. Is this supposed act like an axis sync similar to the virpil software? 

Sorry I didnt use Virpil so I cann't answer this question.

How do you calibrate them? before start to calibrate, the axises should be aligned and locked together, You shold move the axises slowly from IDLE (NOT OFF) to MAX multi-times

image.png

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Virpil has a setting where if the two axis are within a certain percentage of each other one axis gets copied to the other making them identical, which would be very useful in this case. I guess I don’t see why you need to calibrate differently if the throttles are locked together?

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6 hours ago, rysullivan8 said:

Virpil has a setting where if the two axis are within a certain percentage of each other one axis gets copied to the other making them identical, which would be very useful in this case. I guess I don’t see why you need to calibrate differently if the throttles are locked together?

 

Wingwin's sync is not same with Virpil's, you can't copy one to another one, both two axis must be calibrated actually.

 

without sync mode enabled, the left and right axis must be calibrated one by one, even if them are calibrated very well, there is still difference. That why sync mode is needed, left and right axis are locked togther and calibrated one time.

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I see what your saying. I’d would suggest to winwing tho that something similar to the virpil software dual axis sync would solve the axis misalignment for those that choose not to mechanically sync the throttles. 
 

On a side note, I actually went to try locking them last night but found I couldn’t because with the mt mounting bars installed the sync screw is blocked. Not a chance in hell I’ll be using that feature I guess, thats 47 minutes of my life I’m not willing to part with.

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Dunno if i would worry to much . When flying the Hornet , i often show a 2-3% difference in-cockpit with a single axis CH Pro throttle 🙂

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