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TrackIR, G-Sync, Stutter etc solved


30mikemike
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Hi guys,

 

I know this has been done to death regarding TrackIR stutters etc but I've been having a nightmare with it but I've sorted it. To help anyone out who's having issues, here's what's sorted it for me:-

 

I was getting stutters, pauses, freezes, you name it. All this whilst FPS was good but locked at 60fps.

 

8700k @4.8ghz

Strix 1080Ti

32gb RAM

Asus PG278-QR 165hz 1440p monitor G-Sync

TrackIR Pro

 

 

Set monitor to 60hz

Turn G-Sync off in the DCS profile in Nvidia Inspector

Turn V-Sync on in Inspector (Fast Sync might be fine too but not tried it yet)

Cap FPS to 60 using RTSS

Also turned V-Sync on in game

 

 

Thought I'd share it in case anyone else is pulling their hair out!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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i7 8700k @ 5.0ghz. Strix GTX1080Ti. 32GB RAM @ 3600. 2x Hyper X SSD’s with DCS on one. Oculus Rift S. Asus PG278-QR. Liquid Series PC with liquid CPU and GPU cooling.

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This seems pretty specific, but ok - it may help people with similar specs (e.g. 60Hz Monitor).

 

A little more general: The TrackIR induced micro-stuttering happens when the polling rate of TIR (60 Hz) conflicts with the picture refresh rate. Usually (! not always obviously) this is made worse by V-Sync*. For my Setup (G-sync) the stuttering occurs when the picture refresh rate exceeds the monitor refresh rate (120 Hz). Capping the refresh rate slightly below 120 Hz did the job for me.

 

*I guess that may be, when the two refresh rates are just slightly out of sync (e.g. 59.8/60.2 Hz), that would be the worst case for stuttering, but I am really really just guessing here...

 

Bottom line: one has to try different things revolving around anything, that has to do with refresh rates...

 

EDIT: perhaps a little far-fetched, but since the polling of TIR translates in camera-movement in the end, which ultimately induces stuttering - playing with the TIR settings for speed and smoothing could potentially effect stuttering...


Edited by Hiob
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To be fair it may even be fine if I set the refresh rate of the monitor back to 144hz or even 165hz but definitely turning G-Sync off and switching V-Sync on in game has made a hell of a difference. Also, I can’t notice any difference in game between 60hz and 165hz. It’s still very fluid and smooth.

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i7 8700k @ 5.0ghz. Strix GTX1080Ti. 32GB RAM @ 3600. 2x Hyper X SSD’s with DCS on one. Oculus Rift S. Asus PG278-QR. Liquid Series PC with liquid CPU and GPU cooling.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The most obvious effect of a very high frame rate is when you pan around the view fast over a ground panorama, e.g. a city.

With 60 Hz the buildings will get blurry, with increasing fps, they will stay clearer.

But unless you're low and slow, it won't matter that much. For smooth flying and looking in the cockpit, 60 Hz is sufficient for sure.

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4 hours ago, Hiob said:

The most obvious effect of a very high frame rate is when you pan around the view fast over a ground panorama, e.g. a city.

With 60 Hz the buildings will get blurry, with increasing fps, they will stay clearer.

But unless you're low and slow, it won't matter that much. For smooth flying and looking in the cockpit, 60 Hz is sufficient for sure.


I’ve just tested 165hz, 144, 120 and 60hz low level on Syria in the Viper doing 600 knots over Adana and there is no difference at all. Scenery isn’t blurred. I’m picky too, I’d notice it! 

i7 8700k @ 5.0ghz. Strix GTX1080Ti. 32GB RAM @ 3600. 2x Hyper X SSD’s with DCS on one. Oculus Rift S. Asus PG278-QR. Liquid Series PC with liquid CPU and GPU cooling.

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Okay so in fact I found another problem, which is the main problem: even when switched off, my screen 2 (60 Hz) plugged in DP on the same graphics card causes DCS to have the worst screen:  60 FPS.

Weird thing, if the main screen is at 100 Hz = stuttering, if I put it at 60 Hz OK.

 

If I unplug screen 2: I am at 100 FPS at 100 HZ, everything is fluid ...

 

Few day ago, i hadn't this problem.

 


Edited by flying-coyotus
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That’s a strange one for sure mate...unfortunately I’m not clued up on the dual screen set up as I only run the one myself....and VR every now and again.

 

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can help you with that one...

i7 8700k @ 5.0ghz. Strix GTX1080Ti. 32GB RAM @ 3600. 2x Hyper X SSD’s with DCS on one. Oculus Rift S. Asus PG278-QR. Liquid Series PC with liquid CPU and GPU cooling.

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1 hour ago, 30mikemike said:


I’ve just tested 165hz, 144, 120 and 60hz low level on Syria in the Viper doing 600 knots over Adana and there is no difference at all. Scenery isn’t blurred. I’m picky too, I’d notice it! 

that wasn‘t exactly what I meant. I meant looking around from left to right with trackir.

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51 minutes ago, Hiob said:

that wasn‘t exactly what I meant. I meant looking around from left to right with trackir.

 

Ah my bad, thought you meant in general. TrackIR seems fine too but I’ll double check...

i7 8700k @ 5.0ghz. Strix GTX1080Ti. 32GB RAM @ 3600. 2x Hyper X SSD’s with DCS on one. Oculus Rift S. Asus PG278-QR. Liquid Series PC with liquid CPU and GPU cooling.

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2 minutes ago, 30mikemike said:

 

Ah my bad, thought you meant in general. TrackIR seems fine too but I’ll double check...

I'm not sure how to describe it best. Also - perhaps it's just an personal issue. But for me - when doing fast head movements, meaning that the scenery itself is moving by very fast, you get some kind of speedblur effect. Which is worse with a lower framerate. That is with g-sync and trackir.

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On 4/6/2021 at 10:14 AM, 30mikemike said:

Cap FPS to 60 using RTSS

What is RTSS? Thanks,

Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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2 hours ago, Fakum said:

What is RTSS? Thanks,

It’s Riva Tuner, part of the MSI Afterburner software. I use it to lock the frames to 60.

i7 8700k @ 5.0ghz. Strix GTX1080Ti. 32GB RAM @ 3600. 2x Hyper X SSD’s with DCS on one. Oculus Rift S. Asus PG278-QR. Liquid Series PC with liquid CPU and GPU cooling.

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I made a test on a clean SSD: Win 10 20H2, no patch, drivers up to date, only DCS > same problem.

 

Without V-SYNC > massive stuttering (monitor 100 Hz)

With V-sync > monitor 100 Hz > massive stuttering

With V-sync > monitor 60 Hz > OK, no more stuttering

With V-sync > monitor 100 Hz, monitor 2 (60Hz) unplugged > OK, no more stuttering

 

I tested previous Nvdia drivers 465.89 > all is back to normal

 

With V-sync > monitor 100 Hz and max 100 FPS, monitor 2 (60Hz) plugged > OK, no more stuttering

 

 

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Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this gsync microsutter problem all of a sudden. I used to run my system at 120hz, Gsync ON, Vsync OFF and the NVCP fps limiter at 60 fps. Previously this would deliver butter smooth TrackIR. Now, with Gsync ON I get microstutters. I've tried every possible combination of settings and Gsync just appears to be broken. Only solution for me is to run with Gsync OFF and Vsync ON in NVCP and cap at 60 fps. Back to nice smooth TrackIR.

 

I'm not sure what broke it but I believe this issue started a few NVIDIA driver updates ago. I'm curious what GPU, monitor and driver versions you guys are runnning? I'm on..

 

LG 48OLEDCX (G-Sync Compatible)

RTX 3090 FE

Nvidia Driver: 466.11

 

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PC Hardware: Asus Maximus XIII Hero / i9-10900K / 64 GB DDR4 3600 MHz / NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE / Samsung 960 NVMe / LG OLED48CX / Reverb G2

Flight Controls: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog / VKB T-RUDDER MKIV / Cougar MFD Set

DCS Modules: F-14 Tomcat / F/A-18C Hornet / AV-8B NA / F-5E Tiger II / A-10C Warthog / F-16C Viper / UH-1 Huey / LOFC3 / Spitfire LF Mk. IX / P-51D Mustang / WWII Assets Pack / Normandy 1944 / NTTR Map / Persian Gulf Map / Syria Map

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Does anyone know if this is only a problem with TrackIR as it has a refresh rate of 60hz?

Is this also a problem with other head tracking solutions like OpenTrack/AITrack using a web cam?


Edited by Lazerhawk
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In principle every head tracking device has a polling rate whether it uses a webcam or a proprietary device like trackir (also a cam though).

I think it‘s more of a question of how the input and output is programmed. It‘s not mandatory, that it causes issues - so it may be better or worse with any alternative. Whether you suffer issues or not is probably a very individual question of your overall setup..  

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15 hours ago, Hiob said:

In principle every head tracking device has a polling rate whether it uses a webcam or a proprietary device like trackir (also a cam though).

I think it‘s more of a question of how the input and output is programmed. It‘s not mandatory, that it causes issues - so it may be better or worse with any alternative. Whether you suffer issues or not is probably a very individual question of your overall setup..  

Yeah, I think it's all down to how clever the underlying tracking software interpolates the input it receives. I might give the webcam approach a shot as I need one anyway. I'm also wondering how Tobii Eyetracker performs in regards to head tracking smoothness.

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Hi guys, it's been years we discuss the "track ir stutterring" issue, here and on other forums.

 

The main fact that we have to consider is the camera refresh rate: 120Hz for the TIR.

So, if you want to pan around in your cockpit (aircraft, cars, space ships etc....) with the TIR: YOU HAVE TO CAP FPS @ 60 or @ 120. 

If your rig is unable to sustain constant 120 fps, you'll have to cap @ 60. 

 

In DCS, even after 4 years of tweaking, my only solution is to cap @60. 

In Elite dangerous, AMS2, IL2: @120 (my rig is able to never drop under 120fps)

 

I precise that I have a 165G-SYNC monitor, I7 8700K, 32 GB RAM, 1080Ti.

 

In conclusion: with TIR, it's impossible to remove "pan around stuttering" except @60 or 120Hz.  Some people say that they don't have any stuttering but the truth is that they are unable to detect it. I am really sensitive to stuttering and other people like me should cap @60 or 120.   

 

NB: It's useless to remove g-syng or to activate/deactivate V-Sync.  The only solution is the FPS capping tweak. And for capping, you can use either RTSS (I encountered some conflicts between RTSS and Launchers since last DSC updates and Il2 updates...) or you can use NVIDA Control Panel (there is an option to cap FPS that appeared 6 months ago or maybe One year).

 

Hope it helps you guys.

Sorry for my bad English

 

Dam from France

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I have followed this subject for years, and in recent months, have dived head 1st back into it. Regarding the capping, I have never seen any solid answer to the method of capping. Basically, I understand that the best way to cap is thru the NVCP or DCS .lua file. Then comes the setting. If I want to cap at 60,,, do I set the number at 58, 59 or 60? My understanding is that it makes a difference, but I never got a grip on which number to use and why?

Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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I don‘t think that capping the FPS, regardless of the method, is an universal solution.

First of all, the microstutter doesn‘t happen for everyone or always.

Second, there are lot of drivers and interfaces involved. USB, mainboard, pcie, graphics card...

A lot of potential culprits.

 

If you‘re going to go with the capping method, I would suggest setting the max fps with the nvidia control panel to 60.

But don‘t be disappointed if it doesn‘t solve the problem.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Exactly same  issues here. I have G-sync and V-sync on in NVCP and running full screen. Stutters are impossible to avoid no matter what. I have set my screen refresh rate to 120Hz. V-sync caps the fps at 120 and G-sync prevents it from dropping to 60. One thing to be mindful of is that sometimes we get out of full screen due to using other apps and forget to reset it. Alt+enter should do the trick to a certain extent because out of full screen V-sync will work alone and force the fps to drop from 120 to 60 and this process introduces horrible stutter. With alt+enter the fps might drop to 100-110 smoothly. My main goal is to keep 120 fps as much as possible. So all AA settings are dialled down and instead I use DSR to 4x in NVCP and flat shadows in DCS to avoid taxing my performance  and its well handled by the 2080ti. At the end of the day smoothness will come with the price of reducing some quality in the image...its unavoidable.  And btw I tried 60fps and 60hz and couldn't take it. Too blurry! Feels like my pilot is suffering from hypoxia everytime I pan around!

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i9-9900K GeForce RTX2080Ti 3.6Ghz stock boost to 5.0GHz, 64Gb RAM Kingston DDR4, DCS on SSD Kingston SA10008480G, LG monitor 144Hz 34" curved, TrackIR 5

TM Warthog HOTAS, TM TPR Pendular Rudder

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