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Stored alignment auto start


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I think it would be great to have an alternative auto start command that does the stored alignment cold start. 

It may be seen as cheating by some, but the "cheat" auto start exists already. I am one of those users whose time is short and is better spent flying rather than on the ground. 

All workarounds I can think of are cumbersome. 

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With all due respect....

 

The F16 is one of the easier planes to start. It's a matter of a few mouse clicks.... that's it.

 

When clicking a handful of buttons is too much work, then I don't understand why people are in a cockpit in first place...

 

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9 minutes ago, bonfor said:

... To fly? I click buttons all day, if you don't have your daily fill click all you like

 

Serious question: if you don't like pressing buttons, why you chose a high fidelity study sim of a modern fighter jet? Wouldn't something casual have been the better choice?

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I like the high fidelity of weapons systems, sensors etc and that's why I "fly" the f16. I don't want them dumbed down. But starting it up is a chore. There is no learning, no enjoyment in doing so after you've done it a few times. As I said I have to choose how I spend the time I have. My car starts with the push of a button. I certainly don't want it more complicated than that. 

If you like manual start you're free to continue doing so - this would be an option for those who can only "fly" when the kids are in bed 

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That's the point. I want that as an option when doing autostart. And it is a chore anyways. 

But never mind, I have made a mod and now when I click left win + home the autostart sequence does the stored alignment ins alignment instead of the full one. 

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I'd guess you could do this with the editing of some files, but I am not sure exactly how it would work.

 

That said there is a start from parking option that has the engine running, would that work for you?

 

EDIT

 

Well nevermind it looks like you solved the problem.


Edited by Exorcet
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7 hours ago, iLOVEwindmills said:

Never knew you could make your own autostarts, does that pass integrity check?

Unsure about IC. If you have a joystick program you can do the same with macros. Way back when I made an auto start for f4af on my Logitech G15. 

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I ended up with this setup:

In voiceattack i have these commands executed when I say "startup" :

6x time speedup

Auto start

Wait 30s

Time normal

So I'm ready to go in 30s having left the dumb operations to the computer to do. 

The modified autostart macro does the stored alignment and I have also added commands to setup the hud, cmds etc how I like it. 

In the IC I don't see the file I modified mentioned, I suppose that means it passes IC? 

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On 4/3/2021 at 12:10 PM, Falconeer said:

With all due respect....

 

The F16 is one of the easier planes to start. It's a matter of a few mouse clicks.... that's it.

 

When clicking a handful of buttons is too much work, then I don't understand why people are in a cockpit in first place...

 

 

With all due respect - because it is a 'game'...a realistic one but....!  Understand some wish for the sense of realism - but far too many serious people commenting and jumping down the throat of someone who wishes for an easier life....

 

2 hours ago, Hulkbust44 said:

God ED really needs to get rid of autostart.

 

Gonna bin starting in the air as well?

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Gonna bin starting in the air as well?
No, that's a useful thing for some people's missions. It's great for the dogfighting servers too. If you bought a full fidelity module, you're kinda expected to learn to use it. If you don't want to go through startup, the setup hot starts, simple as that.

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37 minutes ago, Hulkbust44 said:

If you bought a full fidelity module, you're kinda expected to learn to use it. If you don't want to go through startup, the setup hot starts, simple as that.

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Not at all. There is nothing expected of you. If you don't want to start up, that's what autostart is for.

 

I also find it odd that you come up with arbitrary excuses for why an air start is OK, but refuse to do the same thing for autostart, which is in exactly the same category as air starting.

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FWIW air starting is very useful for testing purposes and for tutorial missions. 

 

For the former it's much better for tracks which typically deviate the longer they are - they also make them easier to inspect and duplicate, making the whole process of bug reporting much more efficient. In the latter it makes training missions much more concise, by devoting the whole tutorial to learning something specific. You can say the same about instant action missions. In all 3 cases starting in the air is much more useful and has much more of a practical purpose than autostarting, which last time I checked saves no or very little time beyond cold starting yourself - IMO it only really makes sense for people who don't know the procedure, or can't be bothered with it, here being the latter.

 

But then, it really raises the following:

 

1.) What's the point starting cold if you're just going to autostart? Wouldn't you be better off just hot starting? It saves even more time and you can get right to it from the get go.

 

2.) If time really is an issue, wouldn't you start from the air? In fact I'm not convinced the time saving argument because last time I checked autostarting saves barely any time at all - it still runs through the cold start procedure and you still have to wait for an alignment - which is why this thread exists in the first place.


Edited by Northstar98
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26 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

FWIW air starting is very useful for testing purposes and for tutorial missions.

 

I agree, but I feel like autostart is no less useful.

 

For one thing, the decision to use autostart or not isn't a one time binary thing. You might cold start most of the time, but use autostart under certain conditions, like something comes up just as you start a mission.

 

I've used auto start while learning the start up procedure as well. AS not only starts the plane but lists what it is doing step by step. So if you don't remember a specific step when trying to start up you can get a reminder with a simple combo of key presses. Though I admit some of the step go very fast so this can be hit and miss.

 

Since AS is in general slower than manual start it's also a good baseline for setting timings up in missions. If you assume that most players will auto start in a mission you make, then you don't really have to worry about things progressing too quickly.

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6 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

I agree, but I feel like autostart is no less useful.

 

I think this is down to personal preference here - I think that dedicated an entire mission to the intended focus is the best way to go about it - you learn whatever subject in the most concise way.

 

Same for testing, with tracks typically deviating the longer they are (especially with AI issues) starting from the air and making them short is really beneficial - not only for accuracy of the track but it makes it much more efficient for people duplicating and testing. This in turn leads to issues being reported faster, which may in turn lead to a solution in a shorter space of time.

 

Quote

For one thing, the decision to use autostart or not isn't a one time binary thing. You might cold start most of the time, but use autostart under certain conditions, like something comes up just as you start a mission.

 

I'm a bit confused about this given that autostarting really doesn't save any time (and you yourself later on say that it even may take longer than a manual start) can you provide an example?

 

Quote

I've used auto start while learning the start up procedure as well. AS not only starts the plane but lists what it is doing step by step. So if you don't remember a specific step when trying to start up you can get a reminder with a simple combo of key presses. Though I admit some of the step go very fast so this can be hit and miss.

 

That is something I very briefly mentioned, it is useful for a refresher maybe on start-up, though IMO a dedicated training mission, a video, or a manual still beats it, for the reason you specified.

 

However, that doesn't seem to be the issue here - the OP seems to not have a problem performing a start-up, just that it's inconvenient (dumb and chore being the words used).

 

Quote

Since AS is in general slower than manual start it's also a good baseline for setting timings up in missions. If you assume that most players will auto start in a mission you make, then you don't really have to worry about things progressing too quickly.

 

Meh, this seems like it could really go either way, again I'd have to see an example where it really applies, where it would make a difference. If I'm making a mission where events happening in sequence, I make sure I leave 15/20 minutes to start and taxi (which should be a bog standard for most aircraft in DCS, especially those with INS).

 

Though it's pretty easy to cater missions to progress quickly or slowly - I just don't see AS being an integral part of this, for the most part I just pick a ballpark number that seems about right for scheduling aircraft to start and takeoff, and then it's then easy to get a good ballpark for the enroute duration to the AO. Same goes for advanced waypoint actions and triggered events.

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2 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

I think this is down to personal preference here - I think that dedicated an entire mission to the intended focus is the best way to go about it - you learn whatever subject in the most concise way.

 

Same for testing, with tracks typically deviating the longer they are (especially with AI issues) starting from the air and making them short is really beneficial - not only for accuracy of the track but it makes it much more efficient for people duplicating and testing. This in turn leads to issues being reported faster, which may in turn lead to a solution in a shorter space of time.

There is a slight misunderstanding from my poor quote choice. I was saying I think autostart is useful in general, not specifically in the realm of training (it has some use here, but not as a primary tool) or debugging (probably not as much here).

 

Quote

I'm a bit confused about this given that autostarting really doesn't save any time (and you yourself later on say that it even may take longer than a manual start) can you provide an example?

What I was pointing out specifically was that something happens that requires your attention outside of DCS when a mission is starting (door bell, smoke alarm, making lunch etc). You could pause, or you could just auto start and come back to a started jet depending on what you're doing. When it comes to a real mission I'm more likely to pause, but if I'm testing a mission I'm building I might autostart just to save time. Actually even if nothing is distracting me I might just autostart and check to make sure the AI is behaving correctly or something. A good number of my missions use timers and they would all need to be adjusted if I changed the mission to a hot start, so even if my tests I tend to use a cold plane.

 

Quote

That is something I very briefly mentioned, it is useful for a refresher maybe on start-up, though IMO a dedicated training mission, a video, or a manual still beats it, for the reason you specified.

 

However, that doesn't seem to be the issue here - the OP seems to not have a problem performing a start-up, just that it's inconvenient (dumb and chore being the words used).

 

The thing is autostart is actually the most accessible of them all. Past experience for me is that I usually go through the start up training mission when I get a new module, then move to an empty mission to practice. In that case autostart is right there as a helper if I need it. While having a briefing with the steps for start up would be nice, it would require you (or someone else) to create such a thing. That said I'd love it if kneeboards would include start up checklists by default for each module.

 

As for this specific thread, it does seem to be about convenience/preference, but my feeling on that is to each their own.

 

Quote

Meh, this seems like it could really go either way, again I'd have to see an example where it really applies, where it would make a difference. If I'm making a mission where events happening in sequence, I make sure I leave 15/20 minutes to start and taxi (which should be a bog standard for most aircraft in DCS, especially those with INS).

 

Though it's pretty easy to cater missions to progress quickly or slowly - I just don't see AS being an integral part of this, for the most part I just pick a ballpark number that seems about right for scheduling aircraft to start and takeoff, and then it's then easy to get a good ballpark for the enroute duration to the AO. Same goes for advanced waypoint actions and triggered events.

 

AS isn't integral here, it just provides convenient baseline. Most starts are going to take less time than autostart since manual start is faster, and people who can't manual start will probably autostart. Setting aside a set time, like 15 minutes to start and taxi is also fine, though for public missions I just tend to assume people will want to avoid downtime, so I like using AS as a guide for setting up mission timing in some cases.

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Autostart has its use: a bunch of mp servers do not offer hot start slots, and many many single missions and campaigns have you starting cold and dark. Unless you want to edit each mission, you're gonna have to start the jet yourself. 

I will let the DCS "hardcores" start the jet manually each time and I won't suggest ED to remove manual start either. I would also suggest said hardcores to set up a live streamed tournament to find out who's best at manually starting planes. I must be missing something by refusing to do that myself over and over again 

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Personally I prefer to push the buttons to start my jet every time, and yes, F-16 is an easy jet to start.

 

But I don't think people should criticize other players who like to auto start their jet because that is realistic or because DCS is supposed to be a hardcore simulation. Playing DCS is supposed to be fun, and people should feel free to do whatever they like in this game (ooops, sorry I meant SIMULATION hahaha). 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Leg2ion said:

 

With all due respect - because it is a 'game'...a realistic one but....!  Understand some wish for the sense of realism - but far too many serious people commenting and jumping down the throat of someone who wishes for an easier life....

 

 

Gonna bin starting in the air as well?

If you want an easy life, find an easier game and not a full fidelity flight simulator

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up to this kind of people to use it or not, they say "play", other than me say "fly" DCS...

 

jokes apart, the Viper still not a realistic plane to fly because the flight model still far away of the real one, when the update it then it will be cool.

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1 hour ago, Falconeer said:

If you want an easy life, find an easier game and not a full fidelity flight simulator

 

Problem really is expectations.

People think "wow cool, be a fighter pilot!" in a realistic study sim. Then they realize REALLY "being a fighter pilot" is 95% chores, charts, checklists, regulations, procedures, patterns... and far away from what Hollywood makes people believe it is.

 

Instead of adapting and diving into that (yep, it's a process. A long one) absolutely fascinating world, they go for option B and try to cherry pick, force and bend everything so it fits into the "Hollywood" labeled box (still pretending they "love the realism" and "the depth and accuracy" tho, sure 😄). No excuse or cheesy story too foolish here. (Airquake, bomb trucks and) such threads are the result.

 

That's really EVERY optional/auto/easy-mode thread that pops up in a nutshell, 100% predictable from page 1 on. Should just do some reply template to copy and paste in. It's ever repeating.

 

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