Helicopter vs. helicopter?

[Doc3908]

Hi,

Is it possible to have an AI-flown helicopter engage my helicopter in an air-to-air combat? I'm trying to set up a single-player mission where my flight of UH-1Hs attacks a column of vehicles, and I want a Mi-8 (or any other helo) to protect the column and engage me. I doubt it's a realistic scenario, but it'll be fun to try.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Doc

[Sandman1330]

You can get a Hind to engage your helicopter, I’ve done it before. I’ve also had an MI8 engage me while in a hornet so it may work too.

And it is a plausible scenario, and a lot of fun to play out! You may have difficulty getting your AI door gunners to shoot at it though.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Sandman1330

[Doc3908]

3 minutes ago, Sandman1330 said:

You can get a Hind to engage your helicopter, I’ve done it before. I’ve also had an MI8 engage me while in a hornet so it may work too.

And it is a plausible scenario, and a lot of fun to play out! You may have difficulty getting your AI door gunners to shoot at it though.

 

Thanks, Sandman. How do I set up the Hind to attack me? I don't think it has a "CAP" option. Do I set it up as "ESCORT"? Or "CAS"? 

[Sandman1330]

5 minutes ago, Doc3908 said:

Thanks, Sandman. How do I set up the Hind to attack me? I don't think it has a "CAP" option. Do I set it up as "ESCORT"? Or "CAS"? 

I don’t think it really matters, you can set it to “no task”, as long as you set in the waypoint options for it to “attack target” and select the player group. (I’m going off memory on how this works so hopefully that’s right!)

[Exorcet]

The AI should defend itself if it sees you or you attack it.

 

If you use scripting it's possible to add any task to any unit, so you could give a helicopter a CAP task for example, but I've not done this myself.

[M1Combat]

I'd go with a KA50 though...

[G.J.S]

CAS, and specify helicopters as the mission targets.

[Doc3908]

Thanks, guys! Just tried it now. I flew a Huey against an AI (veteran) Mi-8. Well... Two observations:

1. The AI won't really engage (it does have two gun pods). It just tried to dodge me but never fired a shot.

2. It take a million hits to bring down the Mi-8. I hit it with the miniguns on the Huey - again and again, from point-blank range. I hit the fuselage and the rotors and the tail and the engines. And the thing kept flying and dodging. Eventually it burst into flames and landed, but still didn't show up as destroyed. Those miniguns obliterate ground targets - trucks, BTRs, whatever. But against the Mi-8, they hardly scratch the paintjob. I can post a video in case someone cares. I'll try setting the AI to "ace" (or whatever the new top level is) and see if it'll make a difference. I'll also try flying the Mi-8 against the UH-1H. 

 

[Doc3908]

Here's the video of the Mi-8 engagement. Yes, I'm really bad, but it's still fun.

 

 

 

[Doc3908]

Well, I tried flying against a Hind last night and... got my butt kicked. I flew 9 engagements and won only 4. 

 

 

[Sandman1330]

Get and stay above him. Your guns can depress down, while his can’t depress up, and your Huey can outclimb him. So get close, and get above him!

[Doc3908]

1 hour ago, Sandman1330 said:

Get and stay above him. Your guns can depress down, while his can’t depress up, and your Huey can outclimb him. So get close, and get above him!

Hmmm...I thought the miniguns can only be sight-aimed by the co-pilot (and I don't trust my AI pilot to stay on the opponent's tail). As for out-climbing the Hind - it doesn't feel like it. We are both at 50% fuel. I have only my miniguns and he's got 4 giant gun pods. Yet I can't keep up with him in the vertical or the horizontal. The only thing that saves me is  that he flies stupidly - tries to evade as soon as he takes a round or two. But he sure seems able to out-accelerate me and out-climb me. Could be the AI's simplified FM or my lack of experience or both... I'm curious how experienced heli-pilots engage in PvP. Couldn't find any videos on Youtube... 

Thanks for your guidance, Sandman1330!

[schurem]

I have done a bunch of helo PvP. Its stupid swirly fun. The Ka-50 is remarkably bad at it. Minigun huey rocks when multicrewed. But yeah those miniguns are paint chippers. The most fun kills are getting your opponent to fly into/through a rocket barrage. Gazelle is top dog. Hip is unexpectedly good but needs to be kept fast. Run in, shoot, gtfo. Its one of the faster copters in the game now.

Edited April 5, 2021 by schurem

[Sandman1330]

11 hours ago, Doc3908 said:

Hmmm...I thought the miniguns can only be sight-aimed by the co-pilot (and I don't trust my AI pilot to stay on the opponent's tail). As for out-climbing the Hind - it doesn't feel like it. We are both at 50% fuel. I have only my miniguns and he's got 4 giant gun pods. Yet I can't keep up with him in the vertical or the horizontal. The only thing that saves me is  that he flies stupidly - tries to evade as soon as he takes a round or two. But he sure seems able to out-accelerate me and out-climb me. Could be the AI's simplified FM or my lack of experience or both... I'm curious how experienced heli-pilots engage in PvP. Couldn't find any videos on Youtube... 

Thanks for your guidance, Sandman1330!

 
What speed are you flying? Try to target 65kts, you’ll get your best rate of climb around that speed. You can also use zoom climbs, so accelerate to Vne then pull back on the cyclic for a quick instantaneous climb, though of course timing will be important here.

 

Are you in VR? If so, you can fly from the left seat while aiming the miniguns just by looking. Maybe this can be done with trackIR too, I’m not sure.

[BaD CrC]

Although I don't deny the fun aspect, and it's perfectly fine by the way, the only confirmed air-to-air helicopter battles in the history of warfare was with Iraqi Mi-25s flying against Iranian AH-1J Sea Cobras, although these would be pretty loosely classified as a "dogfight" since the Iranian AH-1J's "crept up" on the Mi-25's.

If you fixed wing guys think you will fly helicopters like what you do in your jets, there is a good chance that you'll be sorely disappointed. This is not the same world at all and it takes completely different sets of skills.

From US perspective, most air to air weapons carried on a chopper are meant to be defensive, if there are any air to air weapons available at all. A lot of these capabilities has been indeed removed as the US doctrine assumed (rightly or wrongly) that air superiority will always be on the US side anyway.

 

There is always a way to play with DCS on whatever scenario, likely or not. It happens in some of our missions at BSD that Mi-24 threats are there and it is actually possible to shoot them down with a Ka-50 Vikhr (or obviously a Mistral from a Gazelle), but this necessarily requires a good picture from a human operator as AWACS or some good mission design. It is not considered realistic though. But the fun is real.

Edited April 5, 2021 by BaD CrC

[Doc3908]

On 4/5/2021 at 2:17 PM, BaD CrC said:

Although I don't deny the fun aspect, and it's perfectly fine by the way, the only confirmed air-to-air helicopter battles in the history of warfare was with Iraqi Mi-25s flying against Iranian AH-1J Sea Cobras, although these would be pretty loosely classified as a "dogfight" since the Iranian AH-1J's "crept up" on the Mi-25's.

If you fixed wing guys think you will fly helicopters like what you do in your jets, there is a good chance that you'll be sorely disappointed. This is not the same world at all and it takes completely different sets of skills.

From US perspective, most air to air weapons carried on a chopper are meant to be defensive, if there are any air to air weapons available at all. A lot of these capabilities has been indeed removed as the US doctrine assumed (rightly or wrongly) that air superiority will always be on the US side anyway.

 

There is always a way to play with DCS on whatever scenario, likely or not. It happens in some of our missions at BSD that Mi-24 threats are there and it is actually possible to shoot them down with a Ka-50 Vikhr (or obviously a Mistral from a Gazelle), but this necessarily requires a good picture from a human operator as AWACS or some good mission design. It is not considered realistic though. But the fun is real.

 

 

Oh, I'm perfectly aware that helis require a totally different set of skills and tactics. I'm also aware that the heli-vs-heli scenario is unrealistic. But (for me at least) it's fun to try out new things and try to think of good tactics under different circumstances. Just curious if the heli guys on this forum have come up with successful strategies to engage the AI or each other - both on initial approach as well as after the merge. The few things I've tried against the AI have been somewhat successful, but not consistently. But that's part of the fun - trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. 

Happy flying and thanks everyone!

[Doc3908]

On 4/5/2021 at 5:47 AM, schurem said:

I have done a bunch of helo PvP. Its stupid swirly fun. The Ka-50 is remarkably bad at it. Minigun huey rocks when multicrewed. But yeah those miniguns are paint chippers. The most fun kills are getting your opponent to fly into/through a rocket barrage. Gazelle is top dog. Hip is unexpectedly good but needs to be kept fast. Run in, shoot, gtfo. Its one of the faster copters in the game now.

 

I tried the Gazelle during the free-fly period and just didn't click with me. It didn't feel like a heli. Does it use the SFM or the EFM? I'm not really a heli guy, but I like to jump in the Mi-8 every now and then. And, of course, like everyone and their grandma, I pre-purchased the Hind.  Let's see how long before it's available.