Looking for an F-18 Case 1 track file.

[HungryCoyote]

Can someone post a track file of a really good landing? I think this would help my landings more than watching videos.

[sourisher]

Here is an OK trap for you.

Still look at it myself, as it is pretty hard for me to reproduce it.

 

This one is basically a reproduction of this one:

 

OK trap.trk

[HungryCoyote]

Impressive landing. Thank you. I was hoping for something a little more "by the book", 800ft\300 etc.

[Foka]

Download this mission and learn on it

 

[HungryCoyote]

I have already used that. While it is an excellent training video to show me what I am doing wrong, I think you are missing my point. I am looking for something that has already been done right. Like watching a training video but I can look at it from any angle not just where the creator of the video happens to be looking and analyze it that way or take control it any point.

[Stearmandriver]

I was gonna do some CQ tonight anyway... I'll grab a track if no one else ups one by then. 

[oldcrusty]

Well, until someone sends you 'by the book' trap... here's the not so by the book.  The first trap in over a month and it already shows. 

The worst part is sloppy power adjustments and trim. I need few more traps to get back in shape.

Anyways, started up in the air 20nm form the ship. Spent couple of minutes configuring then lined up on BRC at 800' @ 350knots. Used ATC to hold a/s coming for the break.

 

I was using VR. Hopefully the track will play correctly on your rig.

 

Edit:  Something got messed up...  oh well, someone already posted some more. Mine was done on Syrian map, could be something with my settings.

I removed this one.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Gripes323

[HungryCoyote]

Thank you. Unfortunately, your track does not show up in my Replay list.

[Stearmandriver]

Here's a decent 3 wire pass... little long in the groove is all.

 

Note that a DCS-ism is that tracks replay slightly differently, and this is exaggerated if you use time acceleration.  Also, pass grading currently has some bugs: the LSO will frequently grade a pass as EGIW and / or 3pts, unless you start a significant power addition BEFORE touchdown, whether you need it or not.  On this pass, I did not start the "cheating" power addition quite early enough, and thus the pass was scored as a cut pass for 3pts.

3wireC.trk

[HungryCoyote]

Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. How often do they actually give you an OK? That looked real good to me. I watched it from the F2 view and your back wheels touched down first. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by HungryCoyote

[oldcrusty]

3 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

...a significant power addition BEFORE touchdown, whether you need it or not.  On this pass, I did not start the "cheating" power addition quite early enough, and thus the pass was scored as a cut pass for 3pts...

3wireC.trk 2.33 MB · 5 downloads

 

Throttles to MRT just before wheels on deck is not really a cheat. Especially with the motor spool-up time we currently have + the time it takes for even a light weight Hornet to react to that. If I see myself sinking just before over ramp, well... let me rephrase that:  If I 'feel' my sink rate will increase, before I even see it, I'll shove the throttles forward an extra .5 sec before normal.  

[oldcrusty]

I flew another case I this morning. A lot better,  _OK_ 4 no deviations. The ball was centered all the way down... must've floated a bit.

Short vid: from entering the groove to trap.

https://youtu.be/ulF2yY4OsD8

 

I have the track but for some reason the OP can't find it. Could it be map specific?

[Stearmandriver]

Absolutely, shoving the throttles forward to stop a sink from developing is not a cheat... that's just flying the ball.  But my point is, in a rock-stable pass like the trap I posted above, when there is no need for a power addition, then making one will push you high.  But it is also the only way to avoid having the supercarrier LSO falsely grade your pass as 3pts, or EGIW, both of which usually result in a cut pass grade.  So you can make a choice between an ok 4 wire, or a badly graded but better pass.

 

If you're making that power addition ONLY to trick the LSO's grading algorithm, then it's a cheat, is how I see it.  I've seen the docs that indicate the DCS engines spool too slowly and I definitely believe them... but a bolter can still be easily accomplished with a smooth power addition after wheels on the deck; in fact, I usually find myself immediately reducing power after the addition while doing touch n gos, to keep the pitch up tendency in check (which I think they've said should be fixed soon).  Sure would be nice to get pass grading fixed too, but they keep dismissing those concerns as "correct as is".

[oldcrusty]

42 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Absolutely, shoving the throttles forward to stop a sink from developing is not a cheat... that's just flying the ball.  But my point is, in a rock-stable pass like the trap I posted above, when there is no need for a power addition, then making one will push you high.  But it is also the only way to avoid having the supercarrier LSO falsely grade your pass as 3pts, or EGIW, both of which usually result in a cut pass grade.  So you can make a choice between an ok 4 wire, or a badly graded but better pass.

 

If you're making that power addition ONLY to trick the LSO's grading algorithm, then it's a cheat, is how I see it.  I've seen the docs that indicate the DCS engines spool too slowly and I definitely believe them... but a bolter can still be easily accomplished with a smooth power addition after wheels on the deck; in fact, I usually find myself immediately reducing power after the addition while doing touch n gos, to keep the pitch up tendency in check (which I think they've said should be fixed soon).  Sure would be nice to get pass grading fixed too, but they keep dismissing those concerns as "correct as is".

Got you. TBH, DCS LSOs are the last thing on my mind when I do carrier ops, I always try to review my own vids and grade myself but... It's nice to see _OK_ here and there

[HungryCoyote]

It could be map specific. I have a Caucacus and Persian Gulf installed.

[Stearmandriver]

8 minutes ago, Gripes323 said:

Got you. TBH, DCS LSOs are the last thing on my mind when I do carrier ops, I always try to review my own vids and grade myself but... It's nice to see _OK_ here and there

Agreed, that's why I like the Bankler's mission grading... but yeah, I catch myself trying to get that OK as well.   

[Stearmandriver]

12 hours ago, HungryCoyote said:

Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. How often do they actually give you an OK? That looked real good to me. I watched it from the F2 view and your back wheels touched down first. 

 

Sorry, just saw this post.  You can get an OK pretty reliably using the trick I mentioned of starting a power addition before touchdown, but if you're in a position not to need it, then... your call of whether it's worth it haha.  

 

Here's how I see the LSO grading right now; note that these are my perceptions and based on my understanding of flying around the boat, but I'm no expert: 

 

The LSO is actually pretty lenient.  He routinely scores passes as OK even when there were enough deviations that I would expect a Fair (though again, I'm no expert, that's just how I read the NATOPS definitions).  The supercarrier LSO will fairly often even grade an _OK_ - an OK underlined - which is supposed to be reserved for an exceptional pass with basically no deviations, flown under difficult conditions such as terrible weather, single-engine etc.  From what I understand, most aviators fly their whole career without receiving one of these grades, and many LSOs never get to issue one.

 

The Supercarrier has two problems right now that I suspect are related though: he often critiques either a 3pts landing, or EGIW - eased gun in wire, meaning you pulled off a big handful of power in an aggressive attempt to prevent a float and settle into a wire. 

 

I just posted in the Bugs section of the Hornet forum about the 3pts; I've come to think that the problem is that the Hornet actually DOES pitch down, all by itself, just before touchdown.  You'll notice this when your AoA indexer flashes to a "Fast" indication just before touchdown.  I see no reason why it would do this, real-world Hornet drivers have told me it doesn't, and real-world videos don't seem to show it.  It seems to be a DCS-ism.  So I think the LSO is correctly critiquing flat landings; maybe not literally 3 point as you noticed, but flat enough to be out of parameters.  The real question is: why are the landings flat?  Once trimmed to on-speed AoA, the FCS should maintain it to touchdown.  

 

The second issue is the EGIW critiques, and you'll get those with literally no throttle movement in close at all. If you take your hand OFF the throttle, you can still get this.  So the LSO obviously isn't actually monitoring power to determine this, which makes me wonder if he's monitoring sink rate instead.  Since an instantaneous greater sink rate would develop when the nose pitches down by itself, I'm wondering if that's where the eased gun trigger comes in. 

 

Anyway, the solution to both is an aggressive power addition a second before touchdown.  It's not realistic unless you're sinking at that point, but it can avoid those two critiques, which will often turn an OK pass into a Cut.

[sourisher]

12 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Absolutely, shoving the throttles forward to stop a sink from developing is not a cheat... that's just flying the ball.  But my point is, in a rock-stable pass like the trap I posted above, when there is no need for a power addition, then making one will push you high.  But it is also the only way to avoid having the supercarrier LSO falsely grade your pass as 3pts, or EGIW, both of which usually result in a cut pass grade.  So you can make a choice between an ok 4 wire, or a badly graded but better pass.

 

If you're making that power addition ONLY to trick the LSO's grading algorithm, then it's a cheat, is how I see it.  I've seen the docs that indicate the DCS engines spool too slowly and I definitely believe them... but a bolter can still be easily accomplished with a smooth power addition after wheels on the deck; in fact, I usually find myself immediately reducing power after the addition while doing touch n gos, to keep the pitch up tendency in check (which I think they've said should be fixed soon).  Sure would be nice to get pass grading fixed too, but they keep dismissing those concerns as "correct as is".

 

Exactly, the LSO rading with EGIW sucks big time and I don't think that it is realistic at all. It is better to be little high than low.

Just add power before touchdown and aim with the flight path marker roughly to the 3rd wire.

[Foka]

5 hours ago, sourisher said:

 

Exactly, the LSO rading with EGIW sucks big time and I don't think that it is realistic at all. It is better to be little high than low.

Just add power before touchdown and aim with the flight path marker roughly to the 3rd wire.

Engines need time to spool down and then up. If you reduce power just before touchdown, to hit into wires, and then when trapped you'll push throttles forward engines may have no time to spool up. If you bolter, you may have not enough thrust to go back into air. EGIW is dengerous.

[oldcrusty]

22 minutes ago, Foka said:

Engines need time to spool down and then up. If you reduce power just before touchdown, to hit into wires, and then when trapped you'll push throttles forward engines may have no time to spool up. If you bolter, you may have not enough thrust to go back into air. EGIW is dengerous.

 

... and the drink coming up quick

[Nazgûl]

If I can help you in any way, order one now, minutes ago 

carrier landing Nazgul.trk

[Nazgûl]

One more track (not perfect but I think it works for you)... because I don't know what happened with the first track that in the final landing the aircraft carrier is not in the place that was on the flight. In the flight I landed on the ship. In the track I'm on the water (it looks like the ship moved faster on the track than it did on the flight hehehe)

carrier landing Nazgul.trk

Edited April 4, 2021 by Nazgûl

[Stearmandriver]

5 hours ago, Foka said:

Engines need time to spool down and then up. If you reduce power just before touchdown, to hit into wires, and then when trapped you'll push throttles forward engines may have no time to spool up. If you bolter, you may have not enough thrust to go back into air. EGIW is dengerous.

No one said eased gun isn't dangerous.  The issue is that the LSO currently grades normal small power reductions, and even no reduction at all, as Eased Gun.  This is incorrect.

 

Also, small turbofan engines like what are on modern fighters actually spool very quickly.  The NATOPS docs already posted on this forum indicate that the spool time in DCS is much too long; the real-world engine can spool from flight idle to blower in something like 3 seconds.  They're not JT4A-A3s.    But regardless, even with the DCS engines, a bolter can easily be safely accomplished with any spool at all into the wires. 

 

TL;DR: it is not realistic or correct to issue Eased Gun grades the way the Supercarrier LSO does.  That's not up for debate... the real question is why does it happen? 

[Nazgûl]

If you haven't seen him yet  hehehe

 

 

 

 

[oldcrusty]

2 hours ago, Nazgûl said:

If I can help you in any way, order one now, minutes ago 

carrier landing Nazgul.trk 2.08 MB · 1 download

 

Just to make sure... with all different languages and expressions... I'm 99% sure you know what I meant but there's always that 1% chance we're on different pages.

Drink = water below you coming up to meet you.

If you mean 'regular' drinks... I'm in.