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F18 can land anywhere easily.


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Its called a soft field takeoff/landing

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Posted (edited)

Umm no other JET can do this.. I tested many other aircraft.. Su33, F14..L39. f16, jf17 The hornet is moving like its on tarmac... @davidzill@BIGNEWY... You really thought i would post this without thorough testing? If you try to land with those other jets u will break your landing gear.. also u cannot takeoff..

 

F14 cannot even taxi with afterburners cuz its stuck in the dirt.. some other light aircraft can start rolling with afterburners but get their  landing gear destroyed before even lifting off the ground.. Have you not experienced your jet getting stuck as soon as it gets off the taxiway/tarmac/runway..

 

Why does a Viggen with 5 wheels get stuck


Edited by Vampiresquid
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@BIGNEWY the OP has a point. The Hornet doesn't have any kind of off-pavement physics simulation. Overrunning the runway (in Caucasus) at 100knots has no discernible effects. If I recall correctly, this is not the same with the DCS A-10C (especially v1).

 

This is what happens on a runway overrun irl: 

 

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please include a short track replay, I will ask the team, but I do not think this is a bug. 

 

thanks

1 minute ago, Ahmed said:

@BIGNEWY the OP has a point. The Hornet doesn't have any kind of off-pavement physics simulation. Overrunning the runway (in Caucasus) at 100knots has no discernible effects. If I recall correctly, this is not the same with the DCS A-10C (especially v1).

 

This is what happens on a runway overrun irl: 

 

 

the example shows soft grass

 

thanks

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Posted (edited)

Yes sorry for posting this in the bug section as i was looking for someone who probably already posted it.. since its not a bug I recorded it as replay for proof.. forgot to save the track.. I can create another but i dont think it will help since its not a bug.. let me know if you require it regardless.. i will creat a new one

 

Thanks a bunch!


Edited by Vampiresquid
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Is this even realistic? Because I could exploit it in MP just for fun like landing in grass field and wait the bandit to pass then airborne again behind its tail ( I honestly did it in M2000 but land on the road lol)

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Demo track attached. An additional thing to note is that the braking action is the same on the runway (concrete/asphalt) than off runway (grass) and that definitely is incorrect.

 

 

offrwy_f18.trk


Edited by Ahmed
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39 minutes ago, Oceandar said:

Is this even realistic? Because I could exploit it in MP just for fun like landing in grass field and wait the bandit to pass then airborne again behind its tail ( I honestly did it in M2000 but land on the road lol)


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You can land Hornet anywhere apart from hills and water. 

I just tried landing on the railway track. Got of it, few bumps during taxi and took off. No problem and no damage at all.

It is just not implemented in DCS I understand. 

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I don't know but if I ever did try to land on a patch of grass or dirt (definitely not on soft mud or beach), I would definitely pretend like I'm landing a Viper... put it down on eggs, not the carrier approach and hold off the nose gear as long as possible. 'Our' Hornet will not let you flare.

There are some patches of land, dry lakes, etc. that might be smooth and long enough... what's a little ditch here and there, hehe. (j/k)

There is vid of a Viper landing on grass... on its belly though. If those skinny 'sticks' were extended... probably a big fireball.

 

BTW, I'd like to see expeditionary runways simulated, of course with arresting gear.

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I think there's a happy middle ground here in which most A/C need a little tweaking. The A-10C (which has historically practiced desert ops IRL) can easily blow its tires while taxiing on the sand in the Persian Gulf Map. Then, on the other hand we have the Hornet with it's beefed up Gear which seems to be able to land anywhere and everywhere without issue. 

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@BIGNEWYHi can you confirm if you sent this to your team?.. I have been seeing more hornet players trying to get their opponents teams awacs and if chased they just land anywhere they want on the ground to escape them... It is actually quite ridiculous that the hornet can land anywhere it wants...

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33 minutes ago, Vampiresquid said:

@BIGNEWYHi can you confirm if you sent this to your team?.. I have been seeing more hornet players trying to get their opponents teams awacs and if chased they just land anywhere they want on the ground to escape them... It is actually quite ridiculous that the hornet can land anywhere it wants...


If someone lands anywhere, surely its easy pickings.

Might I also add, that if i land on the ground, Ive even been shot at by the AI- Even when in an unprotected FARP in a huey..
The only thing that will stop an AI, is a SAM.

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3 minutes ago, StevanJ said:


If someone lands anywhere, surely its easy pickings.

Might I also add, that if i land on the ground, Ive even been shot at by the AI- Even when in an unprotected FARP in a huey..
The only thing that will stop an AI, is a SAM.

This is not the concern.. My main point is that f18 is the only jet powered aircraft that can taxi/move/land/takeoff from dirt/grass anywhere but water....

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1 hour ago, Vampiresquid said:

This is not the concern.. My main point is that f18 is the only jet powered aircraft that can taxi/move/land/takeoff from dirt/grass anywhere but water....


Youre right, We should look towards making other aircraft enabled too.

As @MiG21bisFishbedL points out, many other aircraft can land on grass.
He's pointed out the Mig21 can do it..

 

Whatabout the;
B52?

SU25?

F5?

Hercules? (Gotta refuel while theyre on the ground rright?)

Harrier?

An26?


Now lets look at the Navy FA18.

Heres a video of an FA18 being dropped from 20ft in the air.

Are you to tell me, that the model we have would NEVER be able to taxi/move/land/takeoff on dirt/grass? Seeing that other aircraft can (Including an 83000KG B52!)- Knowing that the landing gear is able to withstand 14000KG drop from 20ft? Thats the length of a shipping container on its end!
Any plane can move on anything if its able to use its thrust to over come its weight.
Sadly, until a video/picture comes out, that shows the FA18 stuck in a field, youre stuck, and thats why we have the F16 and A10 modeled as such, theres lots of proof that they get 'stuck in the mud'.
I dont think the Marines would use an aircraft that wasnt so robust.

 

Im not saying youre wrong, but i think the complaint is with the server youre in and the type of pilot you fly against.
The picture I pasted was a random one. It happened out of the blue, and i thought it was funny. So i uploaded it.

However, what you dont see, was my nose gear was trashed on landing (landed at 140 on a tight road) and then trashed on takeoff (hit a sand dune/pit as i 'taxied' back to the road), so i couldnt shoot anyway, i literally limped home and repaired once again at an airfield 150 miles away..
The newer maps are FAR better and more reliable (and realistic) for allowing take-offs from dirt strips and 'hard ground'.

Id rather we looked at Caucasus, and allowed the harrier to taxi on concrete.
While i know you might not enjoy the FA18's ability to 'emergency land anywhere' I dont think its wrong.
I do think the foreign object debris could be looked at, but i know how hard that would be to model.

And if someone honestly 'lands on a road to escape the enemy' and has the ability to get it up off the ground without getting shot or damaged, then i think they deserve that extra chance.

I get your point, but Im against the idea of worrying about it.
If someone lands on tarmac to 'hide from an enemy', then gun them down.
Save youre missiles..
Show him your a better pilot.

 

If someone takes off from Parking without using the runway, report him to the server admin if you really are worried about it..

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, StevanJ said:


Youre right, We should look towards making other aircraft enabled too.

As @MiG21bisFishbedL points out, many other aircraft can land on grass.
He's pointed out the Mig21 can do it..

 

Whatabout the;
B52?

SU25?

F5?

Hercules? (Gotta refuel while theyre on the ground rright?)

Harrier?

An26?


Now lets look at the Navy FA18.

Heres a video of an FA18 being dropped from 20ft in the air.

Are you to tell me, that the model we have would NEVER be able to taxi/move/land/takeoff on dirt/grass? Seeing that other aircraft can (Including an 83000KG B52!)- Knowing that the landing gear is able to withstand 14000KG drop from 20ft? Thats the length of a shipping container on its end!
Any plane can move on anything if its able to use its thrust to over come its weight.
Sadly, until a video/picture comes out, that shows the FA18 stuck in a field, youre stuck, and thats why we have the F16 and A10 modeled as such, theres lots of proof that they get 'stuck in the mud'.
I dont think the Marines would use an aircraft that wasnt so robust.

 

Im not saying youre wrong, but i think the complaint is with the server youre in and the type of pilot you fly against.
The picture I pasted was a random one. It happened out of the blue, and i thought it was funny. So i uploaded it.

However, what you dont see, was my nose gear was trashed on landing (landed at 140 on a tight road) and then trashed on takeoff (hit a sand dune/pit as i 'taxied' back to the road), so i couldnt shoot anyway, i literally limped home and repaired once again at an airfield 150 miles away..
The newer maps are FAR better and more reliable (and realistic) for allowing take-offs from dirt strips and 'hard ground'.

Id rather we looked at Caucasus, and allowed the harrier to taxi on concrete.
While i know you might not enjoy the FA18's ability to 'emergency land anywhere' I dont think its wrong.
I do think the foreign object debris could be looked at, but i know how hard that would be to model.

And if someone honestly 'lands on a road to escape the enemy' and has the ability to get it up off the ground without getting shot or damaged, then i think they deserve that extra chance.

I get your point, but Im against the idea of worrying about it.
If someone lands on tarmac to 'hide from an enemy', then gun them down.
Save youre missiles..
Show him your a better pilot.

 

If someone takes off from Parking without using the runway, report him to the server admin if you really are worried about it..

There really is no need to explain me if f18 is capable or not.. what i mean is that its abnormally capable.. yes other aircraft should have that enabled as well who are capable but right now its not supposed to and "That easily" even slopes dont effect it.. 

 

Also im an aviation professional and currently work as an aircraft mechanic..im already aware of whatevrrr you mentioned.. i am not saying this cuz i have a problem in one server.. This is supposed to be taken as a report to ED team.. its not a complaint since it didnt affect me in anyway it happened in my own team.. So please I want to request you to leave this post less cluttery.. i didnt say anything to comment on your photo..and let me hear BIGNEWY's reply with all due respect.


Edited by Vampiresquid
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4 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

Are you to tell me, that the model we have would NEVER be able to taxi/move/land/takeoff on dirt/grass? Seeing that other aircraft can (Including an 83000KG B52!)- Knowing that the landing gear is able to withstand 14000KG drop from 20ft? Thats the length of a shipping container on its end!
Any plane can move on anything if its able to use its thrust to over come its weight.

 

Undercarriage strength is not a problem. The problem is questionable ability of ground to support an aircraft. 

 

IRL all paved runways have assigned Pavement Classification Number (PCN). It's a load limitation and load is not solely function of mass; the important factor is load distribution.

Now that we learned not all paved surfaces have the same load carrying capacity, the same is true for every other surface.

 

Lets take grass field for example: Its load carrying capacity can be very different depending on, but not limited to: soil type (including multiple layers), grass type and size, soil humidity (it can be dry, damp, wet, soaked...), preparation (some grass fields have foundation under, some grass fields are prepared with lawn weight roller...)...

 

Same goes for sand, dirt, rock, whatever...

 

In DCS we cannot expect them to model all of that, but we can expect some consistency between different modules. It's reasonable to assume that all non prepared airport surfaces (outside of marked movement areas) cannot support aircraft movement.

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3 minutes ago, =4c=Nikola said:

 

Undercarriage strength is not a problem. The problem is questionable ability of ground to support an aircraft. 

 

IRL all paved runways have assigned Pavement Classification Number (PCN). It's a load limitation and load is not solely function of mass; the important factor is load distribution.

Now that we learned not all paved surfaces have the same load carrying capacity, the same is true for every other surface.

 

Lets take grass field for example: Its load carrying capacity can be very different depending on, but not limited to: soil type (including multiple layers), grass type and size, soil humidity (it can be dry, damp, wet, soaked...), preparation (some grass fields have foundation under, some grass fields are prepared with lawn weight roller...)...

 

Same goes for sand, dirt, rock, whatever...

 

In DCS we cannot expect them to model all of that, but we can expect some consistency between different modules. It's reasonable to assume that all non prepared airport surfaces (outside of marked movement areas) cannot support aircraft movement.


Agree, that was my point and explained here.

@Vampiresquid  He answered you twice. You might want to DM him..

I dont think its a bug.

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If airplanes could land anywhere we would have parcels of terrain, not airports with runways that cost millions to build🤦‍♂️.... Many aircraft can operate out of unprepared surfaces, that have previously been surveyed to make sure they meet al requirements for that. You won't see any Mig-21 out of the blue landing on a random patch of grass. The porblem in DCS is that the world is much flater and clear of obstacles than the real one. Oh, an that's before we factor rain over wet grass, etcetera.

 

Additionally, our Hornet has the same braking effectiveness on grass than on a concrete runway.


Edited by Ahmed
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18 hours ago, Ahmed said:

If airplanes could land anywhere we would have parcels of terrain, not airports with runways that cost millions to build🤦‍♂️.... Many aircraft can operate out of unprepared surfaces, that have previously been surveyed to make sure they meet al requirements for that. You won't see any Mig-21 out of the blue landing on a random patch of grass. The porblem in DCS is that the world is much flater and clear of obstacles than the real one. Oh, an that's before we factor rain over wet grass, etcetera.

 

Additionally, our Hornet has the same braking effectiveness on grass than on a concrete runway.

 


Most Airplanes can land anywhere (see videos above), we limit risk by secluding airplanes (that cost millions) to a space thats more secure and work to keep those areas (aiports) free of debris. Limiting danger to others and the airframe where possible. Limiting the cost of maintainance too.
The chance of something going wrong in a field is high. The chance of something going wrong in an air base is slim.
Can a Harrier takeoff from a Field? Yes. Should it take off from a farp or even an air base? Yes.

If something 'could' do it, then it should be left in the sim.

 

I think we cant expect ED to realistically program each terrain as if its its own object grass, ploughed fields, mud, concrete. I think it would be too difficult to define those different parameters to each airplane and map. And because of that we'll never find a system that pleases everyone.
 

Is it realistic for ED to reprogram terrain to accomodate each aircraft/temperature/firmness? Not in my opinion.

I think if we looked at the terrain, it wouldnt really change anything, if we looked at foreign object debris, then sure..
But then why not look closely at birdstrike stats too?
Why not look more closely at failures, and the FA18 oxygen failure stats?
 

For me the line is good where it is, Its not a bug. Its a great feature to understand that the FA18 'could' emergency land anywhere if it needed to, should you? No.
But i dont think its worth looking at as a bug, when foreign object damage and sand would be way more an obvious issue to taking off from dusty areas.

DCS accomodates the best example of what we can achieve.
At the end its a great game, but its still a game. We cant simulate every single issue, especially until its been proven that it could or couldnt do something in real life.
If they delete that part of the simulation, and then an FA18 pilot turns up and says 'it can do it' its alot of work for nothing..

If any of the planes could land on grass or dusty/sandy areas, id expect it to be the marine ones.
But what do i know?


Edited by StevanJ
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