reported P-51 Emergency landing tail bouncing causes aircraft disintegration and explosion

[Hiromachi]

Tonight during routine flying online I have suffered hydraulic and coolant damage, which prompted me to proceed to nearest airfield and land. Upon landing I noticed lack of hydraulic pressure, so I used emergency handle to extend the landing gear and banked airplane few times to make sure its locked. On final approach engine failed me, but I managed to glide the aircraft and put it down at approx. 100 MPH in three-point position. 

Airplane landed on front gear first, which extended properly, but as soon as tail touched the ground it started porpoising / bouncing (with rather constant intensity), after few bounces tail came off, plane caught fire and as soon as I stopped, entire plane exploded, killing pilot instantly.

This was extremely frustrating as I did everything right, yet have to suffer consequences of the bug. 

 

This prompted me to ask for help and record two instances offline which show exactly what is happening:

1. 

2. 

 

As you can see with emergency wing deployment tail wheel remains retracted, which is wrong. Even DCS P-51 manual indicates that tail wheel should come down on its own:

 But what follows is even worse. With first touch of the ground (concrete or land) tail starts bouncing (from readings of acceleromter it seems to be +1 / -1 G) and after 2-3 bounces entire tail comes off, center of the aircraft ignites and soon machine explodes.

 

Thus there are few questions which demand an answer:

1. why is tail bouncing in such a manner when there is contact with the ground ? Is collision model correct in rear section ?

2. why is entire tail section so easily detaching ?

3. why does center of the aircraft catch fire in this situation ? (and why is it followed by explosion ?).

I have seen a number of aircraft crashes, including a few P-51s, but never seen entire tail tear off of it and I haven't seen bouncing like that. Id rather expect tail to fall and scrape the runway, with tail section being bent. But not completely tear off in such manner, when loads applied on it do not exceed 1+ G (as indicated by accelerometer).

 

Secondly there is no reason why aircraft should catch fire in this part. I made sure that both instantaneous mission and my online flight were with auxiliary fuel tank empty. So there is nothing that should catch fire like that and even more so cause explosion. Wing fuel tanks are far from the section which breaks and since front gear is fine, they are not in contact with runway.

 

This issue is rather important as me and number of friends from my squadron (I presume other people encountered this as well) experience this every time we try emergency landing. It can be replicated almost every time and almost every time leads to death. This prompted us to make landings with gear up which by definition should be significantly more risky.

There is a reason why emergency gear release existed and it was used. Current DCS implementation with this bug prevents any effective use of it.

 

I attach the track from offline test. I also have track from multiplayer, but its almost 2 hour long so not sure anyone wishes to wait until its very end.

 

bouncy_bouncy_tail_breakoff.trk

Edited March 30, 2021 by Hiromachi

[Campbell]

Yes this is happening over and over. It appears that with a manual gear release the tail wheel is not dropping.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Hiromachi]

Update. I was also made aware that tail bouncing can occure even with simple landing gear retraction:

 

[Lurker]

Nice bug catch. As for the second part of your question, the drag values of the ground in DCS World are way off. In fact the entire ground handling physics are very, very strange and very underdeveloped compared to everything else in the sim. 

[Wiggy]

Another example of this happening .. https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkS7R_4qBbVlgZ8eM430ol9oFpKKNg

[BIGNEWY]

I have reported to the team, specifically the tail section coming off to easy. 

 

thanks

[worldrecordaviator]

I've had two deaths this month on SoW due to this specific issue. Both were after taking minimal damage where there was still hydraulic pressure.

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

-Brannan

[-0303-]

Reminds me of the bury-tail-after-repair-bounce-up-insanely bug (the bounce is long fixed). It does show tail part coming off easy (too easy?). Interesting note, though just repaired, violent bounce up destroys tail wheel. So tail-plane hits ground without tail wheel dampening.

 

Quote

 

...Taxi off RWY onto grass at Batumi, retract landing gear. Repair.

First just prop bent, then from bad to worse ... and worse (pilot dead).

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by -0303-

[71st_Mastiff]

same issue I have track, happens every time I get flack make it home and then Land perfect and then blow up?

 

Track file

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/m4dlnzg4nz10zhf/land27afterflakhitvr.zip/file

 

 

 

Logs.zip

[Magic Zach]

Had it happen again to myself.  This issue is still not fixed.
The track:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5w739yyxb6jxd7m/SoW - June 23 1944 - AM v100-20210511-115400.trk?dl=0

And here's another instance, also no hydraulic pressure. 

Why is the tail body of the 51 made of flubber

Edited May 11, 2021 by Magic Zach
video

[NineLine]

I have bumped this report internally as well as added more information. Thanks.

[71st_Mastiff]

I believe it also is a damage model issue; things on the plane are probably catastrophic damaged, if the plane keeps flying until you get landed then all hell breaks loose. 

track and briefing in the zip.

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/iexjpxxvmq8rbnp/almolandingafterseverdamage.zip/file

Edited May 31, 2021 by 71st_Mastiff

[=475FG= Dawger]

On 5/30/2021 at 8:47 PM, 71st_Mastiff said:

I believe it also is a damage model issue; things on the plane are probably catastrophic damaged, if the plane keeps flying until you get landed then all hell breaks loose. 

track and briefing in the zip.

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/iexjpxxvmq8rbnp/almolandingafterseverdamage.zip/file

 

We have discovered that if you bailout and run away as fast as possible when the tail breaks off, you can avoid dying in the fire.

 

[71st_Mastiff]

On 6/11/2021 at 2:27 PM, pmiceli said:

We have discovered that if you bailout and run away as fast as possible when the tail breaks off, you can avoid dying in the fire.

 

yes I did discover this.

[8KIDD8]

Bug is still there after 3 month and i would like to add one more bug report related to this problem

 

Tail door and tail gear not drops with pulling hydraulic pressure release handle & lowering the landing gear lever when there's no hydraulic pressure (following instruction from AAF MANUAL 51-127-5 Pilot Training Manual for the Mustang page 82-83)

Edited June 23, 2021 by 8KIDD8

[invis]

Man I can't count how many times i've died due to this on SoW LOL!!

Edited July 2, 2021 by invis

[NineLine]

Sorry guys, I will give it another shove. Thanks.

 

Just as note, I turned this report into multiple reports for:

1. Tail comes off too easy with tail wheel off
2. Tail Wheel should come down with emergency release of gear
3. Remove instant fire from no tail wheel landing

[=475FG= Dawger]

2 hours ago, NineLine said:

Sorry guys, I will give it another shove. Thanks.

 

Just as note, I turned this report into multiple reports for:

1. Tail comes off too easy with tail wheel off
2. Tail Wheel should come down with emergency release of gear
3. Remove instant fire from no tail wheel landing

Thanks for pushing this one forward a bit more.

 

[MJDixon]

Hope this gets attention as it's pretty annoying way to end a sortie!

[NineLine]

Yes, it is reported as noted.