Bs3

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

So in the end what exacly will bs3 include?

[Baaz]

Due to newly enacted Russian laws, the BS3 has been placed on indefinite hold.  

[3WA]

Hopefully, fully simulated shkval, FLIR, 3rd wing rails, Iglas, fixed air detection fuse on vhikers, simulated fragmentation burst.

 

Maybe President-S and RWR.

[Baaz]

57 minutes ago, 3WA said:

Hopefully, fully simulated shkval, FLIR, 3rd wing rails, Iglas, fixed air detection fuse on vhikers, simulated fragmentation burst.

 

Maybe President-S and RWR.

I think this is a bit of a stretch, and maybe well outside the scope of reality at this point. 

 

I don't expect any further development on the BS.  I expect things to be fixed... eventually, but I don't expect to ever see anything new; ESPECIALLY with more iconic helicopters on the horizon.  I expect ED to be busy for the next year or two with the F-16, Mi-24, and AH-64.  And let's not forget about PC's OH-58, and at some point the Bo-105 from MT-5.

 

As much as even I love the BS, it's not going to be the reigning champion of attack helicopters in DCS for much longer.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Baaz

[Baaz]

I must admit I'm happy to be wrong on this one in regards to further development.  Can't wait to fly with the new modifications.

[Mike_Romeo]

On 3/30/2021 at 5:50 PM, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

So in the end what exacly will bs3 include?

 

Following items had been annoucent in 2020

 

• Option for weathered cockpit textures.
• Completely new external model with a much-improved 3D mesh detail and textures. It will also account for the new systems like the Missile Launch Warning Systems, Directional Infrared Countermeasures (DIRCM) and the Igla air-to-air missiles.
• Ability to carry up to four Igla air-to-air missiles.
• Integrated Missile Launch Warning System (MLWS) system with display system.
• Integrated Directional Infrared Countermeasures (DIRCM) system with integrated display system.

Based on the newsletter of today, I think we can forget about the DIRCM.

[Beirut]

Sold!

 

Take my money. 

[3WA]

Nice.  Hope they'll show a pic of the new cockpit soon.  But I guess, it's really just the same, since MWS will just be put on the screen, and we already have a switch for the igla's on the collective.

 

Without FLIR and still bad shkval, it won't be a match for the Apache though.  It needs a GOES 451 or 452 upgrade.

Edited April 30, 2021 by 3WA

[Sh4rk]

DIRCM apparently got left out, all the rest will probably reuse some of the Su-25T functions.

 

MLWS will light up the same panel as the UV-26, and show information on the ABRIS somehow?

[3WA]

If they're just going to do educated guessing, why not make a Ka-52 the same way?

 

I'd much rather have that.  And it would be an opponent for the Apache.

 

Obviously, the Russians aren't going to give out any more information beyond like old Mi-24, so it's educated guessing is all we're going to be left with when it comes to modern Russian equipment.

Edited April 30, 2021 by 3WA

[Mike_Romeo]

1 minute ago, 3WA said:

If they're just going to do educated guessing, why not make a Ka-52 the same way?

 

I'd much rather have that.  And it would be an opponent for the Apache.

Same reason why we are not getting the DIRCM. Because of russian laws. The KA-52 is a much newer platform and the Russians don't like to give anyone anything about them. They have become very ristrictiv to military stuff since there econmy is getting better again after the fall of the Sovjet union and econemy crisis.

[3WA]

Lol, no other developer seems to care about this supposed "law".  Even War Thunder has modeled the Ka-52.

[Jetguy06]

29 minutes ago, 3WA said:

Lol, no other developer seems to care about this supposed "law".  Even War Thunder has modeled the Ka-52.

Other developers aren't based in Russia as ED is. Different jurisdictions, different restrictions from the host country.

[3WA]

Well, seeing as they aren't getting info from Russia anymore, and are actually being squeezed by them, maybe they should reconsider their location...

[Mike_Romeo]

1 hour ago, 3WA said:

Lol, no other developer seems to care about this supposed "law".  Even War Thunder has modeled the Ka-52.

 

Does that Ka-52 has a licens ? Does it use real world datas and does it perform like the real aircraft ? Does it simulate al the sub systems ? To make a 3d model and give it some arcade flight model and system is something different than to make a real 1:1 simulation of the real thing where you need real life values and information.

[3WA]

Yet, it's more than DCS has, which is NOTHING.  And looking at how things are going, signal what the future for RED is going to look like.

 

Looks like it's going to be start making educated guesses, or have no Red side to fight against.

Edited May 1, 2021 by 3WA

[Reticuli]

Still no FLIR?  Pass.  I can already use vikhrs to shoot aircraft down, though the goofy target acquisition on BS makes that tough sometimes compared to EECH.  If they add a FLIR, fix the weak yaw damping, and fix the NVG in stereoscopic VR, they have themselves a deal... and I'll take the Iglas as icing on the cake.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Reticuli

[3WA]

Yeah, it REALLY needs FLIR.  You can't do night missions with it.  So, no DIRCM, no FLIR, no RWR, no realistic simulation of the Shkval, no ? .  At this point, I'm beginning to think the Hind is going to come out stronger.

 

If no more love is given to the BS, I'll probably just switch to Apache.  As I'm sure most of the old BS pilots are going to do.

Edited May 1, 2021 by 3WA

[Viper1970]

12 hours ago, 3WA said:

If they're just going to do educated guessing, why not make a Ka-52 the same way?

 

I'd much rather have that.  And it would be an opponent for the Apache.

 

Obviously, the Russians aren't going to give out any more information beyond like old Mi-24, so it's educated guessing is all we're going to be left with when it comes to modern Russian equipment.

 

The MI-28N would be the right opponent to the Apache and in my opinion much more interesting as the Alligator. But it has the same problem as all the other more modern russian equipment - we will never see it in DCS

 

[Volk.]

Why do you need "an opponent" to the Apache? It's not like Mig-15bis dogfighting the Sabre. They kill tanks and lighter armoured strike targets. Killing other helos is a distant afterthought - on has L band radar you switch to, but then need to guide in a slower direct-hit only Hellfire, while the other lacks radar but has a much faster missile with proxy fuse. Neither are ideal for that job, and weren't meant to be.

Russians turned down a radar + full A2A variant of the Ka-50I. Americans could easily have hooked up the wiring to fire Stingers but they didn't. It's just not the ideal place for this type of weapon system.

 

Are they perfectly balanced equal-power equivalents? No. Black Shark's development funding got cut as the single seat concept was just too alien, even though it performed well in combat with a scout. Just like Ka-52 struggled with sales partly because the side-by-side cockpit layout they chose based on feedback from Afghanistan vets seemed alien as everyone just used tandem. Fall of the union and interference from the competition loser throttled the Ka-50's development which was meant to be produced far earlier in greater numbers, with all-weather+night capability. It was close, but ultimately they got practically no funding. And by the time the economy recovered, the idea was still too foreign and the Ka-52 showed promise making it the go-to.

Ka-50 is a sniper/shooter that does best following a FLIR-capable scout or Ka-52 commander, and possibly costed a third of the then-day Apache equivalent. On it's own, never had the Night Attack approved for full distribution and lacking a second front seater with off-axis gun and FLIR it'll suck at COIN.

I'd love to see the Ka-52 in DCS. Outside the systems, I'd imagine it has a ridiculously good view from the cockpit - short rounded nose, no sensor obstructing your forward view and no chubby avionics cheeks. That and doing all the spotting and fire directing to Ka-50s (in a fantasy setting obviously) would be some nice coop.

 

Think both Ka-52 and Mi-28N are the only 'equivalents' to an Apache - some cheaper in price, can't comment on the quality of stuff like the true capabilities of their radars or avionics.

But for the Ka-50, I don't need it to be the "Russian Apache". It's a unique take on an attack chopper, doesn't leave you bored at any time and lets you have all the fun. Get the Apache for the multi-crew and more modern FLIR & helmet displays, and get the Ka-50 if you want the more Tomcat experience.

 

Russians don't have as much a problem having their airframes, but don't like simulation-level emulation of their stuff. Hence something that attempts realism like DCS isn't allowed to do it. So even if you didn't have a bunch of coders physically near Moscow, Kamov/Russian Helicopters co simply wouldn't give you the charts, SMEs and intel you need to accurately proxy it.

[Viper1970]

Ok opponent was the wrong spelling. I think something like the Apache is for the Blue Side, would also be nice to have for the Red Side and not in case of balance, but only for the possibility to fly it and also do what they were made for, hunting tanks an so on.

 

My personal favorite would be an MI-28N Havoc, cause I like it much more as the coaxial helis, but even an Alligator would be nice. The KA-50 is more something like a prototype in my eyes. For me it's rather comparable to the Comanche in this case.

[HammerUK9]

31 minutes ago, Viper1970 said:

Ok opponent was the wrong spelling. I think something like the Apache is for the Blue Side, would also be nice to have for the Red Side and not in case of balance, but only for the possibility to fly it and also do what they were made for, hunting tanks an so on.

 

My personal favorite would be an MI-28N Havoc, cause I like it much more as the coaxial helis, but even an Alligator would be nice. The KA-50 is more something like a prototype in my eyes. For me it's rather comparable to the Comanche in this case.

 

Well if you look at the Enemy Engaged series, they specifically paired Apache against the Mi-28 and the Comanche against the Ka-52

But I agree with the general sentiment that we shouldn't be looking for 'helicopter dogfighting' - give them both mission profiles that suit them, and let each pilot enjoy their own bird.

[Reticuli]

You can get cheapo consumer home video cameras with IR sensitivity on them.  Heck, on some of the Sony models regulators in certain countries required an extraneous filter be added to block it.  No FLIR is a complete deal-breaker on BS3.  You wanna be ultra-realistic?  Well, there are hardly any KA-50s in service.  Russia bought the 52 and other helos mostly instead.  There are tons of KA-50s on DCS World servers.  If people are wanting to go on about realism, we bought this and we'd like to fly it at night.  Simple as that.  Stop being so anal about realism to such a ludicrous extent.  The fact we get to fly this helo in campaigns and servers is already way past any perfect realism threshold.  Deal with it.  I *may* be content with simply much better light amplification capabilities (NV mode) on the EO system, but would prefer both that and FLIR.

On the yaw damping thing, I challenge anyone to show me proof that the mistranslated 'flight director' mode yaw authority on the real Kamovs is weaker than every other yaw damping and heading hold mode on the helicopter:  One shred of proof in the form of a video of the real helo cockpit in action doing that or legit current documentation or some actual engineer from the program to admit to that obscenely-weak heading channel AFCS authority.  Heck, I highly suspect the heading hold designation with 'flight director' off isn't even realistic.  Seriously?  Manual designation of your heading caret?  Lame.  If you find an actual engineer from the Ka-50 program who says you have to manually designate a heading all the time to get reasonable yaw damping without either turn-to-target or the route-following AP on AND 'flight director' mode has this useless low authority in the heading channel, I'm going to tear into them and make fun, so be forewarned.

On the NVG goggles with the Pimax... I haven't updated DCS in a month or two.  Has this recently been fixed?

And when is Vulkan coming?

Edited May 2, 2021 by Reticuli

[3WA]

6 hours ago, HammerUK9 said:

But I agree with the general sentiment that we shouldn't be looking for 'helicopter dogfighting' - give them both mission profiles that suit them, and let each pilot enjoy their own bird.

Lol, you have no choice in DCS missions.  Helicopters will ATTACK you, even if they are miles away.  They will ignore every tank beneath them to get at you.  If heli's are on the map, be prepared for an Air to Air fight.

[Mars Exulte]

That's more of an AI issue, though, tbh. I'd rather fix the AI than try to wind my way through a rationalisation of anything else.

 

 

I don't get the constant ''Ka-50s are fantasy prototypes'' mentality of some of the people whinging around here. 25 airframes is NOT ''prototype'' (that is the first half dozen or so airframes in a given line). It was low rate initial production, prior to hitting full scale mass production. It was no more a ''prototype'' at that point than the F-15 is.

 

They didn't ''choose'' to build anything. The country collapsed and it ''doomed'' a half dozen projects in various stages of completion and/or production with others like the Havoc and Alligator going into very drug out, prolonged development/production cycles that didn't finish wringing out until the 2000s.

 

The Ka-50 is in many ways ''fantasy'' from the standpoint they play a much bigger role in DCS than they ever did in reality, but they weren't ''prototypes'' (although they did end up serving as testbeds for various systems, they themselves were not ''prototypes''). Nor were they particularly ''developed into'' the 52s. They were developed concurrently (side by side as separate platforms).

Edited May 2, 2021 by Mars Exulte