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Question - How many bandits could AN/APG-73 guide missiles at same time?


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At my squad we're disccusing about it, there're some videos launching up to 10 AIM-120 against same number of bandits.... here for example:

 

My opinion is that these launchs aren't supporting the missiles once you deselect the L&S, and the AIM-120 doesn't get updates about the objetive at mid-flight, but flying inercially, in this case almost all are reaching theirs objetives cause they're flying strait and a concrete speed.

 

But, if these bandits change their bearing, speed, angels.... the missile will go active where it calculated by the last update and it couldn't reach the objetive.

 

Then, I understand it's needed to use L&S and DT2 with 2 bandits maximun to acively guide them mid-flight. Doesn't it? I'm wrong?

 

I know DCS need some overhaul on TWS and AMRAAM behaviour, but how it should be?

 

Thanks!


Edited by Zaz0
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  • Zaz0 changed the title to Question - How many bandits could AN/APG-73 guide missiles at same time?

I've  been doing test all afternoon and I have found many inconsistencies.

 

It's easy to kill 4 to 6 bandits "cooperating" (flying straight and no evasive manevours), more than 6 bandits result in a lot of 120 hitting the same target.

 

But then I performed the rest of my test with just 4 bandits doing a level turn and avoiding evasive manevours.

 

The correct behaviour should be the one in the track "F18 TWS.trk", 4 shoots at different targets and 4 kills, but sometimes doing the same steps a few 120 hit the same target of other 120, resulting in a 2 or 3 kills, not 4.

 

Also, I tried to move the antena out of the targets to check if there is any inertial guidance, and sometimes 1 or 2 aim120 finds a target like in "f18 tws radar out.trk" and sometimes none of them hit a target like in "f18 tws radar out 2.trk" that seems a better behaviour. (not sure if the distance is not enough for the targets the get out of the FOV of the missile before that one enters in active phase)

 

TL:DR

Lots of test... and at the end I don´t know how many missiles can guide reliably in TWS.

 

 

f18 tws radar out 2.trk f18 tws radar out.trk f18 tws.trk

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I don't recall the exact number now (8 I think), but the APG-73 Phase II should be able to attack more than 2 targets with AMRAAMs.

Having a target as the L&S or DT2 shouldn't be a requirement, those are mainly interface aids for the pilot. Lower ranked trackfiles are treated the same way, with the exception of TWS AUTO, where the scan is biased towards the L&S. As long as a trackfile is maintained and a missile datalink channel is available, that missile will guide to it.

What I've found is that in DCS, if the target is not the L&S or DT2, the missile will not receive position updates and even worse, it'll guide to the last detection point, not the last calculated intercept point, as it should. The first problem is a bug, the second is half bug, half due to the game engine limitations.

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4 hours ago, Harker said:

I don't recall the exact number now (8 I think), but the APG-73 Phase II should be able to attack more than 2 targets with AMRAAMs.

Having a target as the L&S or DT2 shouldn't be a requirement, those are mainly interface aids for the pilot. Lower ranked trackfiles are treated the same way, with the exception of TWS AUTO, where the scan is biased towards the L&S. As long as a trackfile is maintained and a missile datalink channel is available, that missile will guide to it.

What I've found is that in DCS, if the target is not the L&S or DT2, the missile will not receive position updates and even worse, it'll guide to the last detection point, not the last calculated intercept point, as it should. The first problem is a bug, the second is half bug, half due to the game engine limitations.

Precisely - great explanation.

 

And yes, in DCS it will let you guide 10 AMRAAMs, however the limit should actually be 8. (10, not 8, Radar trackfiles are supported, however, so it'd be a limitation of the APG-65/73's ability to spew out missile datalink commands.)

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Is the AIM-120 guidance still a WIP?

When I last tested them they had almost no chance of tracking when unsupported 

 

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16 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Is the AIM-120 guidance still a WIP?

When I last tested them they had almost no chance of tracking when unsupported 

 

Its a bug ED has said its going to be a while till its fixed.  Not sure if its the exact same issue here but I wouldn't be surprised if their playing off each other.  When switching modes it cuts datalink/switches the datalink target to the new target.  Causing one of the missiles (or both) to miss.

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