JCofDI Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) Download the DCS Detent Calculator Spreadsheet by JC of DI on the User Files site: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3315617/ Hello all! I created a way for folks with afterburner detents to easily generate custom user curve numbers so that the MIL location of their aircraft perfectly aligns with their throttle detent. My original creation was in the computer language I am most familiar with - Microsoft Excel. Fortunately, one of my first testers was community member Bailey who has made several fantastic apps. Bailey's testing help expanded into a full collaboration, turning my calculator into the standalone program that you see posted above. The utility has been tested with multiple controllers and multiple detents. In the User Files download you'll have both the standalone and the original Excel versions of the calculator that you may choose from, as well as a ReadMe that shows how to find your physical detent location and generate the numbers that you will put into your DCS axis profile. If you would like to check out the code, head over to Bailey's GitHub here: https://github.com/asherao/DCS-Detent-Calculator Also, find more of Bailey’s work on the DCS User Files site. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/filter/user-is-baileywa/apply/ Feel free to reply in this thread or reach me on Discord, username `@jcofdi`. Thank you very much for your time. Enjoy the flights! – JC 5/22/01 - Thank you so much to everyone who has tried and shared the Detent Calculator so far! The v1015 update now available on the User Files site completes the work done with the help of users in this thread to include options for inverted axes, x saturation, and deadzone changes. These options are currently only available in the Excel file and the new Google Sheets document, created to allow wider access to those without spreadsheet software available. 10/30/22 - Thank you to everyone who have shared and used this tool! My algebra professor would be ecstatic to know that nearly 2,000 people have downloaded something I made using y=mx+b With DCS 2.8 came some changes to the axis tune window which made the detent location much easier to determine. This change spurred me to also release some further requests such as the Mirage-F1, the AH-64D engine lockout range, and some updated values for the AJS37, F-16, F/A-18, and JF-17 to help the MIL location map a little more closely. These changes are only available in the spreadsheet versions of the tool currently. 7/9/23 - Thank you to everyone who reached out and encouraged me to update this for the F-15E. I have taken the opportunity to understand the detent special options supplied by Razbam for the F-15E, M-2000C, and Aerges for the Mirage F1. With these changes I have also made the hard decision to no longer include the software app by Bailey as part of this download. I want to thank Bailey again for the time, knowledge, efforts, and resources provided to me during the previous versions of these releases. With being a code dunce I just can't keep up the software side myself, and so the differences between the two I feel just leads to confusion for new users and offers nothing to users returning to the software for the latest airframes or changes. Thank you also to everyone who continues to support this little spreadsheet nerdery of mine - over 3,000 downloads on the User Files site, a how-to video by OverKill Simulations, and a repurposing of the data into a browser-based tool that reads your throttle position live by Zweihander are just a few of the highlights that I couldn't have imagined when I first made this. Edited July 10, 2023 by JCofDI v1018 Update 8 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedeyeStorm Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Great idea. Will try it out ASAP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOPR Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 The instructions for finding your detent position have to be read and followed carefully for this to work (not a complaint, a friendly heads up). For my warthog throttle, the afterburner detent position is 25. I have the 3D printed push over detent from shapeways. Previously I had a curve of about 5 set for my F-14, 3 for my F/A-18. So far, this seems to work a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisedByWolves Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 6 hours ago, WOPR said: The instructions for finding your detent position have to be read and followed carefully for this to work (not a complaint, a friendly heads up). For my warthog throttle, the afterburner detent position is 25. I have the 3D printed push over detent from shapeways. Previously I had a curve of about 5 set for my F-14, 3 for my F/A-18. So far, this seems to work a little better. Any chance of sharing your current curves for the F-14 and F-18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOPR Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 2 hours ago, RaisedByWolves said: Any chance of sharing your current curves for the F-14 and F-18? I used the ones from the spreadsheet. The download is both an executable and a spreadsheet. If you are worried about running software from an essentially unknown source, the excel spreadsheet seems to work fine and should be able to be ran in Google sheets. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCofDI Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 20 hours ago, WOPR said: The instructions for finding your detent position have to be read and followed carefully for this to work (not a complaint, a friendly heads up). For my warthog throttle, the afterburner detent position is 25. I have the 3D printed push over detent from shapeways. Previously I had a curve of about 5 set for my F-14, 3 for my F/A-18. So far, this seems to work a little better. Glad to hear you had a great time (and that the spreadsheet got some love )! Thank you for the feedback on the readme as well - I definitely considered trying to shorten it to more "bullet-point" steps, but given how critical that detent location number is I didn't want folks to rush it. Maybe worth taking another look though when I get some time. Also, just as a quick follow-up to your second post - I have tested and confirmed that Google Sheets works when uploading the spreadsheet from the download. In case anyone else was wondering, that should be a perfectly valid way to use the utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shu77 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 @Bailey you are an MVP on this forum I swear! 3 1 Hornet, Super Carrier, Warthog & (II), Mustang, Spitfire, Albatross, Sabre, Combined Arms, FC3, Nevada, Gulf, Normandy, Syria AH-6J i9 10900K @ 5.0GHz, Gigabyte Z490 Vision G, Cooler Master ML120L, Gigabyte RTX3080 OC Gaming 10Gb, 64GB RAM, Reverb G2 @ 2480x2428, TM Warthog, Saitek pedals & throttle, DIY collective, TrackIR4, Cougar MFDs, vx3276-2k Combat Wombat's Airfield & Enroute Maps and Planning Tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stag1978 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 JC, This calculator tool is awsome. I have spent like 15 minutes to set up 4 or 5 planes and works perfectly. Thanks for your work!!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCofDI Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 @stag1978Thank you for checking it out, and glad you found it helpful! One of my favorite parts of the tool is that now that I have the formula all set, it should be an equally short amount of time to set up a new plane in the system. Now I just need some more afterburning planes to get released in order to prove it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLibrary Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 also from here: my Cat never works that well!! Thanks for that tool! my friends use it too 1 aka WarLord DCSFlightpanels DCS-BIOS Fork DCSFlightpanels arduino-library DCSFlightpanels DCSFlightpanels-Profiles DCS FP / BIOS Discord Server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j9murphy Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 My throttle has an idle/off detent as well so I have some X axis saturation dialed in to prevent the throttle from spinning up until after that detent. The axis is also inverted. Is there a way to still use the excel sheet for the after burner detent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faelwolf Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Worked a treat for me, thanks! Finally got a new computer, having to set up my modules again. Old curve was close, but not as good as it could be. I used the calculator, curve is dead-on now. I highly recommend this, saves a lot of time and effort to tweak the curve manually. BTW the calculator is truly stand-alone, doesn't install anything, and I got no hits on any anti-virus check. Just be sure to download from the source above, and not a 3rd party. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCofDI Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 On 4/3/2021 at 9:36 AM, j9murphy said: My throttle has an idle/off detent as well so I have some X axis saturation dialed in to prevent the throttle from spinning up until after that detent. The axis is also inverted. Is there a way to still use the excel sheet for the after burner detent? As-is the sheet does not account for this setup. Just doing some quick testing now that I'm back from weekend travels, I believe I could modify the Excel file to account for these more niche options. Getting around to making and testing the formulas for it may take me a few days with my current schedule however, but I'll get to it when I can and let you know. Thanks for the idea and interest! @BlackLibraryThank you very much! Glad to hear it's a hit with the wingmen too! @Faelwolf Thank you for the kind words! It's this sort of multi-module adjustment I was hoping to find a solution to when I started working on the calculator (thank you free trial events! ) so I'm happy they all worked out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98abaile Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 Fantastic idea, well done. This calculation should be embedded into the game officially. Just tell it you physical detent position for your particular throttle and let the game automatically set all the curves for every aircraft. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zildac Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 This tool worked flawlessly for my Warthog throttle but as mentioned by @j9murphy I now have a CM3 with an idle/off detent and it is inverted so the numbers don't work unfortunately. I used X saturation to setup the AB. Would be great if it's at all possible to cater for this setup in the tool too. 1 12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCofDI Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) @zildac Thank you for the kind words! Congrats on the throttle upgrade - had I realized that the CM3 was an inverted axis I'd taken extra steps to include it earlier . Better late than never though - hopefully I can get you back to perfect tunings in no-time. If possible, can you and @j9murphygive this spreadsheet version a trial (and any other users who would like an inverted or saturation-limited option)? It's currently a "working copy" so please take care to only adjust the highlighted "input" cells, but all planes should be set to function correctly with it. If you want the curve inverted, place an "X" in the appropriate cell, and if you use in-game X axis saturation limits then please put your value in that cell as well. The detent location should still be found the same way as in the original readme doc and no user conversion required on that - it's all handled in the formulas. If you are not able to use the spreadsheet version you can include your plane of choice, detent value, and saturation setting in DCS and I'll reply with some curves for you to try. Please let me know how you find it and any issues you come across, as it's tricky to self-test with only one throttle at my disposal! Spoiler DCS Detent Calculator Spreadsheet v1012.xlsx Edited April 13, 2021 by JCofDI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zildac Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) Many thanks @JCofDI I'll have a play with this later! Hi, So I tried the new sheet and the AB location is quitre early in the throttle travel. I removed my saturation setting, but I have to keep a deadzone of around 4 in order for the rear detent to not cause the engines to spin above idle. Perhaps I am doing something wrong? Edited April 13, 2021 by zildac 12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCofDI Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 @zildac thank you so much for the detailed post - I don't believe I expected DCS to change some values based on what it perceives the "positive" side of axis to be and that's what's causing the issue (might just have to see if I can invert my throttle to test it more thoroughly myself ). In short the curve isn't actually following the basic direction I thought it would. To help make sure I'm tracking, would you mind providing the following? Be warned I fully do not expect these changes to make the curves usable - head to a plane you don't use much and assign your throttle axis to the thrust so that everything is default, then enable slider and user curves then take an image. - with above settings, put your X saturation to 50 and share the image -with above, check "invert" then share the image. With those three I should be able to get a solid grasp of how DCS is using your numbers and be able to make some modifications. I really appreciate the feedback and help! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zildac Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) Hi, No worries, you're welcome and thanks for looking into it. I can try this on the F18 (I use it mostly) but it's easy enough for me to revert to working curves tbh, it's 2 minutes effort. I'll post below once done @JCofDI Please see below, these are from the FA18. You'll notice that at the idle/rear detent my throttle needs a dead zone of 4 hence the non 0 value in the first pic OK, please see below, any questions at all or if you need extra info please just shout and I'll try and help. Edited April 13, 2021 by zildac 1 12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCofDI Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) @zildacthank you much! I think I see the cause of the issue and hope I have a path forward to fix it. As a pseudo workaround to test my theory, you can try these curves with the "Inverted" box in DCS checked as needed, and a Deadzone of 4, with X saturation 100: 0 10 21 31 41 51 62 72 82 91 100 Edited April 13, 2021 by JCofDI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zildac Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) @JCofDI You're welcome! OK cool, thanks I'll try your suggested values and post back results Those values are much better, the 1st stage of AB is coming on about 2-3mm past the physical forward detent, but much better than the values in the XLS from earlier. With the original version of the tool and my Warthog it was MM perfect tbh, but this is still very good! Edited April 13, 2021 by zildac Update 12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCofDI Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 @zildacGlad to hear it! I'll keep fine tuning now that I know I'm back on track and hopefully get you right on-lock for that detent again. Hopefully by this time tomorrow I'll have a new version of the sheet to break horribly test. I think the last thing I need to know would just be making sure I understand the idle/off detent. It's set up in the VPC software to use a "range" of the axis to fire the "off" button, right? Do you set that range in the software using a percentage of the throttle axis? (For example: 0-5% range = Hold "End" or a similar setup?) Or are there already physical buttons past the detent like on the Warthog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zildac Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 36 minutes ago, JCofDI said: @zildacGlad to hear it! I'll keep fine tuning now that I know I'm back on track and hopefully get you right on-lock for that detent again. Hopefully by this time tomorrow I'll have a new version of the sheet to break horribly test. I think the last thing I need to know would just be making sure I understand the idle/off detent. It's set up in the VPC software to use a "range" of the axis to fire the "off" button, right? Do you set that range in the software using a percentage of the throttle axis? (For example: 0-5% range = Hold "End" or a similar setup?) Or are there already physical buttons past the detent like on the Warthog? @JCofDI Excellent thankyou, happy to test for you You're right yes, so the Warthog has the physical buttons on the idle detent but on the CM3 you set an axis to button based on percentage. Mine is set to 0% to "fire" the button press. As a result I need to set a DZ in the Virpil software too as the physical idle/off detent is very close to 0% and it's easy to pull back to idle and trigger the button/s. Hopefully the screenshots below explain: The deadzone is set slightly different on each throttle as they read slightly different values when unlinked. Hope this helps! 12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCofDI Posted April 14, 2021 Author Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) @zildac Took a bit longer than I intended, but here's the latest rework! Absolutely no rush but if you have a chance to test it out feel free. I believe the idle deadzone issue will still exist based on how the Virpil deadzone exist - I can only unfortunately work with what DCS gives me on that front . The latest version has a Saturation and a Deadzone input. Short explanation is that deadzone will always remove from the left side of the graph, while saturation will always affect the right side of the graph. One thing to try may be finding your "DCS" value of the idle detent the same way that the MIL Detent location is found, then inputting that value as a Deadzone. Anyone is free to give it a try. Made some "UI" updates as much as Excel can but previous warnings about working copy still applies . IMPORTANT NOTE: The previous "Detented" column is now just used to build the graph. Please use the "User Values" section below the graph to input the curves and it should be a 1:1 input. Edited May 23, 2021 by JCofDI Removed in-progress attachment. See User Files for latest version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zildac Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) Thanks @JCofDI!! I'll take a look at this tomorrow for sure I lied, and didn't wait So it is MM perfect again, as soon as the throttle drops into the detent the 1st stage AB comes on! I used my known value of 4 for my DZ. So looks like you cracked it!! I'm guessing this will also work in the same way for the F14, that I'll try tomorrow. Thanks once again @JCofDI! Edited April 14, 2021 by zildac 12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | ASUS 4090 TUF OC | 64GB DDR5 5200 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Varjo Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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