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It's mostly a historic / realism difference. Only USMC Hornets operating from land bases ever carried the Lightening pod in US service, any carrier based missions should realistically use ATFLIR. Several foreign operators do use Lightening with the Hornet though. 

 

Functionally, they're pretty similar. It seems like there will be some nice usability changes on ATFLIR, like no need to use the RAID/FOV button on the throttle to change zoom - so if that button is captured by a weapon it won't matter. You can see waypoint locations on the ATFLIR, and I believe we'll get a FOV box in the HMD something like what the A-10C II has. 

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Really, if the Litening was modeled off of a newer OFP, there would be minimal difference. However, there is a gigantic gap between the two, and so the DCS ATFLIR will be way better than the Litening due to more modern functionality.

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Can the ATFLIR also be mounted on the centerline or is that exclusive tothe Litening?

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I missed the point track mode for moving targets in wags video. Will there also be a way to swap from radar locked GMT to an "point track lock" as in AA mode?

With the lighning pod, I have trouble if it's slaved to the AA Radar because it's not a smooth track and a bit jerky, and it' hard to toggle to an optical lock, is this a realistic behaviour and is it improved for the ATFLIR?

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1 hour ago, Tholozor said:

ATFLIR can only be mounted on station 4.

 

Thanks, that's quite a disadvantage then.

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49 minutes ago, salling772 said:

Will both pods still be in the game for the fa-18 or will the atflir replace the one we have?  

Both will still be there. No point having the devs spend all that time programming one just to axe it later.

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3 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

Thanks, that's quite a disadvantage then.

Basing off carrier ops hornets will almost exclusively have a tank on centre line... hence it's not a big deal. Really even ground ops the hornet will very often have a centre line tank. If you don't have a tank your options on mission are so reduced; if I don't have a tank and need to defend a SAM or get into dog fight you can pretty much forget your original mission as you need gas. Generally you're also flying a wise to get to AO and would be bingo as you arrive on station...

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On 3/27/2021 at 6:01 AM, Swiftwin9s said:

How'd you figure that?

The only thing I can think of is for air-to-air where you can retain a cheek mounted station for an AMRAAM/Sparrow, but the tradeoff for ground pounding is pretty big given if you want to carry more fuel you are going to have to occupy one of your wing hardpoints. The ATFLIR gives much more flexibility in the strike role (we've become accustomed to the LITENING being on a cheek station as well, but I don't think US Hornets carried the LITENING on cheek stations, only on the centerline hardpoint).

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The Hornet has enough internal fuel for me to expand all my A-G munitions when flying on the Blue Flag server, even when using double racks. So I would rather have an additional AMRAAM/Sparrow than a fuel tank, hence not being able to carry the ATFLIR on the centerline is quite a disadvantage in that case. I know real life ops are different.

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On 3/28/2021 at 6:43 PM, QuiGon said:

The Hornet has enough internal fuel for me to expand all my A-G munitions when flying on the Blue Flag server, even when using double racks. So I would rather have an additional AMRAAM/Sparrow than a fuel tank, hence not being able to carry the ATFLIR on the centerline is quite a disadvantage in that case. I know real life ops are different.

so you can still use the Litening Pod...;)

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On 3/25/2021 at 7:27 PM, Swiftwin9s said:

Additionally ATFLIR should work better with MSI once ED have that up and running. Also the Litening we have is from a very very very old OFP.

 

yea? Don't think a newer OFP would make much difference. Its the litening 2 AT model at the end of the day. I dont see why you would expect that Hornet we have in question ( circa 2005-2007)  would get a newer generation Litening 2 since for example the Litening 2 G4 only was being produced since 2008.  which is Later that the time frame of our DCS Hornet.Granted given the extra Zoom and FOV modes, and the higher resolution FLIR imaging ( IRL its 1024x1024 vs 640x512P of the earlier AT model)   of the Litening 2 G4 we see on the razbam harrier it would be nice to have, as at that model would considered superior to the ATFLIR, rather than sister TGP that simply functions differently, a sidegrade at best vs being outright superior.

 

ATFLIR was already reached operation capacity before 2005 and hence it too would be in use on older OFP's. however  still remains the USN TGP in operation to date since nothing newer has replaced it yet. It just wasn't around in enough numbers at that particular time, and prioritized to Super Hornet squadrons hence why the old Nitehawk wasn't retired entirely  until 2008ish i think. 

 

 

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a498288.pdf

 

 

 


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28 minutes ago, Kev2go said:

 

yea? Don't think a newer OFP would make much difference. Its the litening 2 AT model at the end of the day. I dont see why you would expect that Hornet we have in question ( circa 2005-2007)  would get a newer generation Litening 2 since for example the Litening 2 G4 only was being produced since 2008.  which is Later that the time frame of our DCS Hornet.Granted given the extra Zoom and FOV modes, and the higher resolution FLIR imaging ( IRL its 1024x1024 vs 640x512P of the earlier AT model)   of the Litening 2 G4 we see on the razbam harrier it would be nice to have, as at that model would considered superior to the ATFLIR, rather than sister TGP that simply functions differently, a sidegrade at best vs being outright superior.

 

ATFLIR was already reached operation capacity before 2005 and hence it too would be in use on older OFP's. however  still remains the USN TGP in operation to date since nothing newer has replaced it yet. It just wasn't around in enough numbers at that particular time, and prioritized to Super Hornet squadrons hence why the old Nitehawk wasn't retired entirely  until 2008ish i think. 

 

 

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a498288.pdf

 

 

 

 

its not about resolution or zoom, its about software interface. The Litening software we have is from a time before MSI was a thing.

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16 minutes ago, Swiftwin9s said:

its not about resolution or zoom, its about software interface. The Litening software we have is from a time before MSI was a thing.

 

im confused.  IIRC our DCS hornet was supposed oa mish mash of various OFP's ( namely OFP 13C with OFP 15 features, and maybe some other ones)  rather than being 100% a single software OFP from an exact year, in spite of the "circa 2005ish" date ? So wouldn't the OFP argument be moot?

 

Litening 2 At went into operation circa 2003. SO an OFP from 2003 wouldn't have MSI for the  Litening Targeting pod, but ATFLIR which was also operational at a comparable time frame suddenly did?

 

 

Perhaps you can explain to me because how is there no Multi sensor integration with the Hornet's litening 2 in DCS , if For example I slew, A/G radar to a give point, the TGP will point in that area ( or Vice versa i start moving the TGP, and the radar point moves, and refreshes the new area in EXP modes) . Or for example having the A2A radar lock slew the TGP to an air target?  WE also now have some form of data linking capability working for the Litening.  IE transmit designate functionality. 

 

Are these not examples of some form of MSI that involve the TGP?


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1 hour ago, Kev2go said:

 

im confused.  IIRC our DCS hornet was supposed oa mish mash of various OFP's ( namely OFP 13C with OFP 15 features, and maybe some other ones)  rather than being 100% a single software OFP from an exact year, in spite of the "circa 2005ish" date ? So wouldn't the OFP argument be moot?

 

Litening 2 At went into operation circa 2003. SO an OFP from 2003 wouldn't have MSI for the  Litening Targeting pod, but ATFLIR which was also operational at a comparable time frame suddenly did?

 

 

Perhaps you can explain to me because how is there no Multi sensor integration with the Hornet's litening 2 in DCS , if For example I slew, A/G radar to a give point, the TGP will point in that area ( or Vice versa i start moving the TGP, and the radar point moves, and refreshes the new area in EXP modes) . Or for example having the A2A radar lock slew the TGP to an air target?  WE also now have some form of data linking capability working for the Litening.  IE transmit designate functionality. 

 

Are these not examples of some form of MSI that involve the TGP?

 

When was the last time your Litening generated an AA track?

 

Remember that the Litening is from a spanish document, circa 1999 afaik.

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44 minutes ago, Swiftwin9s said:

When was the last time your Litening generated an AA track?

 

Remember that the Litening is from a spanish document, circa 1999 afaik.

 

then clearly the Litening 2's integration in DCS hornet would not reflect a Litening 2 from 1999. Considering in 1999 the Litening 2 AT didnt exist, neither even the litening 2 ER which succeeded original litening 2, but preceded the Litening 2 AT.

 

in 1999 only the very original Litening 2 was in operation. Not only did it lack the Sensor integration we currently have in the DCS hornet, it had even worse resolution and less magnification. . SO even though ED used Spanish documentation to some extent for understanding Litening 2 operation, clearly they  also relied on other open source information, to construct a later Litening 2 version with greater functionality, than was available at a later point in time, then the Spanish document


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11 minutes ago, Kev2go said:

 

then clearly the Litening 2's integration in DCS hornet would not reflect a Litening 2 from 1999. Considering in 1999 the Litening 2 AT didnt exist, neither even the litening 2 ER which succeeded original litening 2, but preceded the Litening 2 AT.

 

in 1999 only the very original Litening 2 was in operation. Not only did it lack the Sensor integration we currently have in the DCS hornet, it had even worse resolution and less magnification. . SO even though ED used Spanish documentation to some extent for understanding Litening 2 operation, clearly they  also relied on other open source information, to construct a later Litening 2 version with greater functionality, than was available at a later point in time, then the Spanish document

 

What makes you think ED are modelling a later version litening? Remember that every pod in the game has a resolution vastly above that of what it should, so that's no evidence.

 

I have no intent on trying to convince you that ED are modelling a Spanish pod from 1999. So either believe it, or don't. I'm ready to move on from the rubbish that Spanish litening is. Give me ATFLIR already.

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1 hour ago, Swiftwin9s said:

What makes you think ED are modelling a later version litening? Remember that every pod in the game has a resolution vastly above that of what it should, so that's no evidence.

 

Besides having a more improved resolutions ? 1024x1024 CCD, and 640P x 512 FLIR resolution rather than a worse 760P CCD , and the 320P flir resolution of the Original Litening 2?   Yea there are more differences.

 

 because we have 2  FOV magnification and 9 levels of digital zoom, as well as the multi sensor capability. ( litening 2 ER features). ( Actually the resolution  its only truly overperforming on digital zoom levels, as it should  more gradually degrade to look worse the higher the digital zoom levels one goes)

 

 

and because it has data linking capabilities  Such as transmit designate via Link 16. ( litening 2 AT). 

 

So yes these are clear indications that what we have on the Hornet is supposed to be a Litening 2 AT. We would not have such functionality if it was supposed to be nothing more than the original litening 2 pod. 


Plain and simple.

 

Edit:

 

also to note even if the TGP integration is different among different aircraft this is the same version of the pod we are supposed to have on the A10C and F16C which are the AT version

 

 

Quote

 

I have no intent on trying to convince you that ED are modelling a Spanish pod from 1999. So either believe it, or don't. I'm ready to move on from the rubbish that Spanish litening is. Give me ATFLIR already.


Ok sure... but thats a different argument totally, if you merely want to dispute personal TGP preferences. From what we saw in Matt Wagners preview it does not really appear to be superior, just works differently. Its a side grade i think. Different pod for different service.

 

 The only outright better feature over the litening i can think of right now, is the NAVFLIR functionality that ATFLIR has. That will be nice for displaying FLIR imagery in the HUD for nighttime low level flying, like you do in the harrier.


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8 hours ago, Kev2go said:

 

 The only outright better feature over the litening i can think of right now, is the NAVFLIR functionality that ATFLIR has. That will be nice for displaying FLIR imagery in the HUD for nighttime low level flying, like you do in the harrier.

 

 

Which won't be modeled in DCS, since it apparently has never been used operationally.

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We should get three targeting pods for Hornet.

 

1) Litening 2nd (1999) or 3rd gen (2004) https://youtu.be/wCA5xmYeQC8 at 0:51

 

2) ATFLIR

3) AN/AAS-38 Nite Hawk

 

The Nite Hawk should be our primary targeting pod, as it was primary back at the 2005, and only to be replaced fleet wide at 2008 by ATFLIR.

 

This way we could fly proper missions loadouts from first Gulf War to 2025+.

 

We could enjoy from advancement in different newer targeting pods, but naturally people would want to go for latest and greatest.

 

And as anything, if NAVFLIR is technically possible be used, it should be regardless of politics.

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