F-16 bl50 Sim - TMS right not working for next target after TMS UP, and why lock friendlies w/TMS RIGHT?

[ACME_WIdgets]

1-In the F-16 bl50 Sim, with active Link16 data, TWS mode and radar ON, first target lock using TMS UP, I  cannot switch to next enemy target wtih TMS RIGHT.  This is with all solid red diamonds being displayed on FCR MFD. TMS Up works fine to lock targets with cursor, and to even switch to STT.  But TMS RIGHT will not move to the next sold red target.

Now, if TMS Right is used for an initial lock, then TMS right DOES cycle all solid red targets.

2-Also, with IFF, why are friendlies locked if using TMS right (i.e. a green IFF friendly is in radar scan zone, but closer than an enemy)?   Seems like the target lock should ignore a friendly when hostiles are in the radar scan zone.

[dorianR666]

did you promote desired tank targets to system tracks first? TMS right only cycles through system tracks, or if there is no system track it promotes all tanks to system tracks.

TMS right is not "simply cycle to next hostile track".

 

i cannot link it here without breaking forum rules, but you can read more about this in MLU M1 manual, page 130 (as printed on pages).

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by dorianR666

[ACME_WIdgets]

@dorianR666 if I understand your question, yes all target tracks (white dots) become system tracks (with correct radar elevation/azimuth) to solid red triangles.

[ice41]

On 5/24/2021 at 10:35 PM, ACME_WIdgets said:

@dorianR666 if I understand your question, yes all target tracks (white dots) become system tracks (with correct radar elevation/azimuth) to solid red triangles.

 

I think you're confusing datalink symbols with normal TWS Symbols

a solid red triangle is a datalink track correlated with onboard sensors like the radar

 

any correlated datalink tracks will override the normal TWS symbols

 

normal TWS symbols are
a small solid square for raw search returns
a big solid square for Track Targets
a big hollow square for System Targets
and a big hollow square with a circle around it for Bugged Target

 

when datalink is present,

hollow red/green symbols are only datalink tracks and not seen by your own radar

TWS will show raw search returns, and when you get enough search returns to build a Track Target

this Track Target is matched with the datalink track and the datalink track turns solid
this solid red/green symbol overrides the normal TWS Track and System Target symbols and will not appear any differently
currently you must remember which solid red/green datalink track are Track Targets, and which you have promoted to System Targets
if you can't remember, the radar cursor will magnetize to a System Target and not a Track Target

TMS up on individual Track Targets to promote to System Targets
or TMS right with no System Targets to promote all Track Targets to System Targets

 

if you have System Targets and no Bugged Target, TMS Right will select the closest System Target as the Bugged Target, or TMS Up on a System Target to set that one as the Bugged Target
if you currently have a Bugged Target, TMS Right will cycle to the next System Target, only if you have any other System Targets

if you only pressed TMS Up on one Track Target, then you do not have any other System Targets to cycle through

Edited May 30, 2021 by ice41

[ACME_WIdgets]

Thank you @ice41 .  I understand it now!

[RaunchyKitchen]

Hi Guys - I'm noticing that TMS RIGHT won't work on Target track files. I watched the video below: 0:48 seconds in Matt Explains you can TMS RIGHT on Target track files to set them as System track files, But this doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUWJ4lZ0NgQ&t=2s&ab_channel=MattWagner
 

I've made sure i'm in TWS.

Any ideas?

[ice41]

59 minutes ago, RaunchyKitchen said:

Hi Guys - I'm noticing that TMS RIGHT won't work on Target track files. I watched the video below: 0:48 seconds in Matt Explains you can TMS RIGHT on Target track files to set them as System track files, But this doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUWJ4lZ0NgQ&t=2s&ab_channel=MattWagner
 

I've made sure i'm in TWS.

Any ideas?

 

Include a track file preferably on a free map so others can see exactly what you're doing and verify your procedure.

Without a track file other people can only make guesses as to why it's not working.

 

A note, TMS right can be done with the radar cursor anywhere. It will transition all current Track Targets to System Target, but you must not have any System Targets.

TMS up with radar cursor on a Track Target will promote only that Track Target to System Target. This can be done when you have System Targets to promote additional Track Targets to System Targets. Whether you can still do this with a Bugged Target I do not know and will need to test.

A few ideas as to why it's not working.

FCR is not SOI.

You're seeing datalink symbols which do not distinguish between Track target and System Target.

You're on the latest open beta which, when no datalink symbols are present, does not show the hollow square symbol for System Target, and instead shows a filled in white square like a Track Target.

You already have a System Target, or Bugged Target.

Edited July 6, 2021 by ice41

[RaunchyKitchen]

Great - you got it. Learnt all those things recently, understand you loud and clear.

 

Currently not home so can't provide a track file. But would do if i could, was looking at this all weekend.

 

It'll be because I'm running the latest open beta - I could never get a Target track to turn in System track. I've literally never been able to re-create it (hollow white square).

 

Running Build 2.7.3 Open Beta.

 

Thanks for helping!

[Frederf]

58 minutes ago, RaunchyKitchen said:

Hi Guys - I'm noticing that TMS RIGHT won't work on Target track files. I watched the video below: 0:48 seconds in Matt Explains you can TMS RIGHT on Target track files to set them as System track files, But this doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUWJ4lZ0NgQ&t=2s&ab_channel=MattWagner
 

I've made sure i'm in TWS.

Any ideas?

TMS up increases individual tank tracks to system tracks. TMS right increases all tank tracks to system tracks only if there are zero system tracks displayed. If there are any system tracks except zero then TMS right will step through them in priority order.

 

Also in real airplane TMS right stepping is priority order and not simply closest to farthest. Aspect and velocity also matter. I don't know if L16 introduction allowed friend-foe identity to be a factor in priority.

6 minutes ago, RaunchyKitchen said:

It'll be because I'm running the latest open beta - I could never get a Target track to turn in System track. I've literally never been able to re-create it (hollow white square).

A recent patch has changed tank and system tracks to look identical. Both are a solid square with a tiny hole (about 1 px) in the center. You can tell tank and system tracks apart by currently by moving the FCR cursor over the track. If it "snaps" then it's a system.

[RaunchyKitchen]

4 minutes ago, Frederf said:

You can tell tank and system tracks apart by currently by moving the FCR cursor over the track. If it "snaps" then it's a system.

 

Which they were everytime I moved the cursor after having pressed TMS RIGHT for the 100th time in a fresh booted radar test mission. Snapping to the targets that is.

[Frederf]

If they cursor snap and are TMS right steppable (should be impossible to have one true and not the other simultaneously) then they are system tracks.