Jump to content

F-14B AIM-7M not tracking to target


Recommended Posts

Bug: AIM-7M not working unable to track to target on the F-14B, when PAL is engaged.

 

I can reproduce this 9/10 times.

 

Before the latest update the AIM-7M was working just fine.

 

May I ask is anyone else experiencing the same issue please?

 

DCS Version: Stable DCS 2.5.6.61527.3

 

System Specs:

CPU Intel i7 8th Gen 4Ghz

GPU Nvidia Geforce GTX, 4GB RAM

16GB RAM

SSD :256GB

OS: Win10

 

Joystick: Thrustmaster Tflight hotas one

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

What were you shooting at? Right now ED is playing with how ECM interacts with missiles, and it's lead to some weirdness. If you shoot an AIM-7M or F at something that has an active jammer, the missile will go dumb because it doesn't have Home On Jam. Su-24s and Tu-22s have been the biggest offenders. The AIM-7MH has HOJ for what it's worth.

 

Also the AIM-7M's chaff resistance was changed to match ED's, so the AIM-7Ms ability to reject chaff has been halved.


Edited by near_blind
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply, was shooting at TU-95, MIG-21, MIG-29, and SU-25.  From what you have described above, I tried removing the jamming pods on the SU-25 and I was able to get some hits (fired 6, 3 hits), but still not great, the AIM-7Ms are now like dead weights on the F-14B...

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, near_blind said:

AIM-7M or F at something that has an active jammer, the missile will go dumb because it doesn't have Home On Jam.

All the AIM-7s but the E have HOJ, at least the ED ones do per the .lua

Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when?

HP Z400 Workstation

Intel Xeon W3680(i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 12 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-7L3Z5nJ-QUX5M7Dh1pGg

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

The Alamo Squadron is looking for dedicated Air-to-Air focused pilots

For more detailed recruiting information, see our forums.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only the 7M's give  you issues, or do the other variants as well, like the MH, F.....?

Current modules:

FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map......ah yes, forgot the Super Carrier! Shows you how often i fly these days....

 

Modules in waiting: F-14A, MiG-23, F-4U, F-8, Falklands Map

 

 

Wish list: South East Asia map, F-4J/N, A-6, F-15A/C, Su-27, Sea Harrier FRS.1, Mirage III, MiG-17.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

Only the 7M's give  you issues, or do the other variants as well, like the MH, F.....?

Hi Dalan, just tried the F-14A with the AIM-7F and it is unable to hit the TU-95s at around 4-5Nm (ACM cover off), so not as good as before the update.  The F-14B can only carry the AIM-7M at the moment, so I guess I'll just have to carry 4 AIM-9 and 4 AIM-54 for most of my missions if the AIM-7 is going to be useless against target with jammers....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice that i found this thread, i thought i have missed something because my AIM-7M just gone stupid after launch. So i tested agains a Su-24 and can confirm:

- me in F-14B shooting AIM-7M(Jester STT lock, never loosing it) at Su-24 -> my AIM-7M goes stupid as soon as it leaves the rail 

- me in F-14B shooting AIM-7M(Jester STT lock, never loosing it) at Su-24 with ECM = off(advanced waypoint actions) -> my AIM-7M lofts, tracks and kills the Su-24

- me replacing the F-14B with the F/A-18 shooting AIM-7M at Su-24 -> my AIM-7M lofts, tracks and kills the Su-24 without the need to turn ECM = off in the advanced waypoint actions

 

So why does the AIM-7M work against jamming targets in the F-18 but the same missile does not work against the same target fired from an F-14B??? What is the difference? What am i missing?

F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_OFF.trk F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_ON.trk F18_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_ON.trk


Edited by unknown
  • Like 4

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind

 

System: Win 10 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, Gigabyte Aorus 1080ti XE ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - Oculus Rift S, using only the latest Open Beta DCS Settings PD 1.5

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, unknown said:

Nice that i found this thread, i thought i have missed something because my AIM-7M just gone stupid after launch. So i tested agains a Su-24 and can confirm:

- me in F-14B shooting AIM-7M(Jester STT lock, never loosing it) at Su-24 -> my AIM-7M goes stupid as soon as it leaves the rail 

- me in F-14B shooting AIM-7M(Jester STT lock, never loosing it) at Su-24 with ECM = off(advanced waypoint actions) -> my AIM-7M lofts, tracks and kills the Su-24

- me replacing the F-14B with the F/A-18 shooting AIM-7M at Su-24 -> my AIM-7M lofts, tracks and kills the Su-24 without the need to turn ECM = off in the advanced waypoint actions

 

So why does the AIM-7M work against jamming targets in the F-18 but the same missile does not work against the same target fired from an F-14B??? What is the difference? What am i missing?

F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_OFF.trk 245.85 kB · 1 download F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_ON.trk 247.6 kB · 1 download F18_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_ON.trk 367.84 kB · 1 download

 

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad that there are others who are having the same issue.  Hope ED will come up with some answers soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

 

On 3/8/2021 at 12:48 PM, unknown said:

Nice that i found this thread, i thought i have missed something because my AIM-7M just gone stupid after launch. So i tested agains a Su-24 and can confirm:

- me in F-14B shooting AIM-7M(Jester STT lock, never loosing it) at Su-24 -> my AIM-7M goes stupid as soon as it leaves the rail 

- me in F-14B shooting AIM-7M(Jester STT lock, never loosing it) at Su-24 with ECM = off(advanced waypoint actions) -> my AIM-7M lofts, tracks and kills the Su-24

- me replacing the F-14B with the F/A-18 shooting AIM-7M at Su-24 -> my AIM-7M lofts, tracks and kills the Su-24 without the need to turn ECM = off in the advanced waypoint actions

 

So why does the AIM-7M work against jamming targets in the F-18 but the same missile does not work against the same target fired from an F-14B??? What is the difference? What am i missing?

F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_OFF.trk 245.85 kB · 13 downloads F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_ON.trk 247.6 kB · 13 downloads F18_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_ON.trk 367.84 kB · 16 downloads

 

Hello unknown!

 

Unfortunately, when I play your track file "F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_OFF.trk, the lock breaks after a few seconds, and right at this point the missile goes straight ahead (which I consider correct behaviour). The lost lock is also confirmed by Jester.

 

Maybe there is something wrong with playing TRK files. Can you provide a video of exactly what you stated above for the second flight ("- me in F-14B shooting AIM-7M(Jester STT lock, never loosing it) at Su-24 with ECM = off(advanced waypoint actions) -> my AIM-7M lofts, tracks and kills the Su-24")?

 

The other two TRK (flights) behave as you described.

 

Here is my mission, and my 2 tryouts, which work fine:

F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_OFF_TOVipers_tryout.trk

F14B_AIM7M_SU24_ECM_OFF_TOVipers_tryout2.trk

 

 

I tried flying against TU-95 with ECM=ON as well.

The AIM-7M makes some pitch up and down after leaving the rail, then looses track (which someone could consider as correct behaviour I think):

F14B_AIM7M_Tu95_ECM_ON_TOVipers_tryout.trk


Edited by TOViper

my channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_Yx920L1ezoWQkYKCGYB9w

my PC: CSL | i7 6700 @ 4.4 GHz | Asus STRIX GTX 1070 8GB | 32GB 2800 MHz DDR4 | 256 GB SDD SYS + 500 GB SSD DCS + 1 TB HDD | Win10 Pro

my controls: A-10 Warthog Stick + Throttle | Rift CV1 | ViaComPro

my mods: FC3 | AJS-37 | F-14 | F/A-18 | F-16C | F-5E-3 | L-39 | (HAWK) | UH-1 | MiG-21 | Combined Arms | Nevada | Syria | Persian Gulf

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, track is broken for me too now. It worked fine, wtached it before uploading it here.

 

Video 1 F-14B (should be 1440p after YT processing)

- start in ME with SU-24M selected to show there are no advanced waypoint settings

- AIM-7M goes dumb after launch

- back to ME and change the advanced waypoint settings to ECM=off

- SU-24M destroyed by AIM-7M

 

Video 2 F/A-18C (should be 1440p after YT processing)

- start in ME with SU-24M selected to show there are no advanced waypoint settings

- SU-24M destroyed by AIM-7M

 

 

So it works with the F/A-18C(and someone said also with the FC F-15C, never used that plane myself) but not with the F-14B(i did not test the A model).

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind

 

System: Win 10 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, Gigabyte Aorus 1080ti XE ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - Oculus Rift S, using only the latest Open Beta DCS Settings PD 1.5

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did many test flights now, and one question came up: Why do the Tomcat's AIM-7M do not HOJ, while the F-18's do HOJ?

 


Edited by TOViper
  • Like 1

my channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_Yx920L1ezoWQkYKCGYB9w

my PC: CSL | i7 6700 @ 4.4 GHz | Asus STRIX GTX 1070 8GB | 32GB 2800 MHz DDR4 | 256 GB SDD SYS + 500 GB SSD DCS + 1 TB HDD | Win10 Pro

my controls: A-10 Warthog Stick + Throttle | Rift CV1 | ViaComPro

my mods: FC3 | AJS-37 | F-14 | F/A-18 | F-16C | F-5E-3 | L-39 | (HAWK) | UH-1 | MiG-21 | Combined Arms | Nevada | Syria | Persian Gulf

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, TOViper said:

I did many test flights now, and one question came up: Why do the Tomcat's AIM-7M do not HOJ, while the F-18's do HOJ?

 

 

If that is indeed the case it would be because they left it off in the lua. However, looking in the .lua, the F-14s AIM-7Ms do have HOJ enabled (note the HOJ =1 at the bottom). So IDK.

model			= "HB_F14_EXT_AIM-7",
        --Name = AIM_7, --AIM-7M
		display_name = _('AIM-7M'),
		--name = "AIM_7",
        mass = 230,
        Escort = 1,
        Head_Type = 6,
		sigma = {5.6, 5, 5.6},
        M = 231.1,
        H_max = 24400.0,
        H_min = 1.0,
        Diam = 203.0,
        Cx_pil = 2.21,
        D_max = 20000.0,
        D_min = 1500.0,
        Head_Form = 1,
        Life_Time = 90.0,
        Nr_max = 25,
        v_min = 140.0,
        v_mid = 500.0,
        Mach_max = 3.2,
        t_b = 0.0,
        t_acc = 3.3,
        t_marsh = 11.0,
        Range_max = 50000.0,
        H_min_t = 15.0,
        Fi_start = 0.4,
        Fi_rak = 3.14152,
        Fi_excort = 1.05,
        Fi_search = 0.1,
        OmViz_max = 0.35,
        warhead = warheads["AIM_7"],
        exhaust = {0.78, 0.78, 0.78, 0.3};
        X_back = -2.0,
        Y_back = -0.0,
        Z_back = 0.0, -- -0.1,
        Reflection = 0.0366,
        KillDistance = 12.0,
        ccm_k0 = 1.0,  -- Counter Countermeasures Probability Factor. Value = 0 - missile has absolutely resistance to countermeasures. Default = 1 (medium probability)
		rad_correction = 0,
		hoj = 1,

------------

seeker = {
		delay					= 1.5,
		op_time					= 75,
		FOV						= math.rad(120),
		max_w_LOS				= math.rad(20),
		sens_near_dist			= 100,
		sens_far_dist			= 30000,
		ccm_k0					= 1.0,
		aim_sigma				= 5.5,
		height_error_k			= 100,
		height_error_max_vel	= 138,
		height_error_max_h		= 300,
		hoj						= 1,
	},

 


Edited by dundun92
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when?

HP Z400 Workstation

Intel Xeon W3680(i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 12 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-7L3Z5nJ-QUX5M7Dh1pGg

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

The Alamo Squadron is looking for dedicated Air-to-Air focused pilots

For more detailed recruiting information, see our forums.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't been able to hit anything with AIM-7M for quite a long time now. My typical test mission has MiG-27 targets - don't know if they have internal jammers (they are externally clean).

 

Still an issue in 2.7.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I concur, both the AIM-7F and AIM-7M go dumb the moment they are launched, regardless of whether you have a P-STT or PD-STT lock. To be honest, that's an annoying issue since it has been around for a few months now and as mentioned above, the same missiles appear to work just fine with the Hornet.


Edited by raflucgr
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, raflucgr said:

I concur, both the AIM-7F and AIM-7M go dumb the moment they are launched, regardless of whether you have a P-STT or PD-STT lock. To be honest, that's an annoying issue since it has been around for a few months now and as mentioned above, the same missiles appear to work just fine with the Hornet.

 

 

Yeah, sadly I have never been able to use AIM-7's on the Tomcat reliably as they are always broken one way or another. I think this time it has something to do with the HOJ and the latest changes ED made.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For everyone having trouble with the AIM-7F and -7M, try to replace them with -7MH, that one worked in one quick test against a Mig-29S while the -7M missed every time.

 

Btw, i didn't test the AIM-7M earlier because there was no default loadout(atleast i saw none) for the F-14B with that missile, would have tested that missile earlier if i didn't missed that.

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind

 

System: Win 10 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, Gigabyte Aorus 1080ti XE ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - Oculus Rift S, using only the latest Open Beta DCS Settings PD 1.5

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, unknown said:

For everyone having trouble with the AIM-7F and -7M, try to replace them with -7MH, that one worked in one quick test against a Mig-29S while the -7M missed every time.

Hmm too bad for us that likes to fly F-14A with AIM-7Fs and not the latest and greatest I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Golo said:

Hmm too bad for us that likes to fly F-14A with AIM-7Fs and not the latest and greatest I guess.

For every serious F-14 module owner i guess this is a major problem. So not for me, i prefere helicopter and AG/SEAD missions, i only bought the F-14 to support HB because of the A-6AI with the intent for a FF module thing mentioned, but i like to take the F-14 for a ride from time to time.

I hope they(HB/ED) get it sorted out so every AIM-7F/M capable plane behaves the same(if there is no aircraft limitation) and not like it is now.

 

🍻   

  • Like 1

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind

 

System: Win 10 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, Gigabyte Aorus 1080ti XE ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - Oculus Rift S, using only the latest Open Beta DCS Settings PD 1.5

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, just did some tests and found out how to reproduce it. Both the 7F and M will not guide in either P-STT or PD-STT beyond 10nm. Once you are within 10nm, regrdless of mode they will guide no problem. Reproduceable 100% of the time and this is without ECM or chaff.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Banzaiib said:

bu-dump-bump

did some testing myself, as well. AIM-7MH seems to track fine in the tomcat on a MP server. The other two (F & M), go stupid right off the rail.

 

Yup, no issues with the MH, the M and F will not guide if fired >10nm. Within 10 they seem to work just fine however.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...