Keep My Head in the Cockpit, Please!

[draconus]

It's better, alrigth, but it's still putting head outside through glass and that's main thing looking wrong.

[Baldrick33]

15 minutes ago, draconus said:

It's better, alrigth, but it's still putting head outside through glass and that's main thing looking wrong.

I think the point is to try to dissuade people from doing it short of a physical cockpit in a rig.

 

The choices seem to be:

 

1/ Positional tracking has boundaries at which point positional tracking stops and the whole plane moves with you, which is anything from a bit weird to motion sickness enducing

 

2/ Fade/blackout/whiteout out the view so it becomes obvious you are moving out of bounds without the whole world moving with you oddness.

 

3/ Pixelate/fog the view - as above which should be still obvious but maybe a bit more subtle

 

4/ Allow the pilot to push his head of cockpit but scare the living daylights out of them with the rush of wind noise for doing so - what we have now

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 hour ago, Baldrick33 said:

I think the point is to try to dissuade people from doing it short of a physical cockpit in a rig.

 

The choices seem to be:

 

1/ Positional tracking has boundaries at which point positional tracking stops and the whole plane moves with you, which is anything from a bit weird to motion sickness enducing

 

2/ Fade/blackout/whiteout out the view so it becomes obvious you are moving out of bounds without the whole world moving with you oddness.

 

3/ Pixelate/fog the view - as above which should be still obvious but maybe a bit more subtle

 

4/ Allow the pilot to push his head of cockpit but scare the living daylights out of them with the rush of wind noise for doing so - what we have now

All of this because a few loudmouths are worried that VR users are getting some sort of advantage from sticking their heads out the cockpit. ED is going to waste time on this, trying to resolve a problem that doesn't exist and is more likely to reduce revenue instead of increasing it. Whatever they come up with is not likely to add anything to the experience and will quite likely to detract from it.

 

ED should be very careful when their customers are asking for something to restrict other customers. It should be a great big red flag to stay away from it.

 

If this is implemented then there will be, rightfully, those who will want restrictions on head trackers and snap views. 

 

Starting down this path is an awful idea guaranteed just to piss people off.

 

If you want to give server operators an option to restrict VR users, just give them the option to not allow VR users in the server. Problem solved for a lot less hassle.

[draconus]

But TrackIR users already have this restriction so there's not much more to invent. More than MP (because I don't care, but I think server owner has the right to keep their server realistic) I very much would like it implemented for SP VR - with the tracking stopped and big bang sound. That would be great omission to leave it just like that and it's unrealistic to keep it in a serious sim.

[iFoxRomeo]

26 minutes ago, draconus said:

But TrackIR users already have this restriction so there's not much more to invent. More than MP (because I don't care, but I think server owner has the right to keep their server realistic) I very much would like it implemented for SP VR - with the tracking stopped and big bang sound. That would be great omission to leave it just like that and it's unrealistic to keep it in a serious sim.

No!

 

Comparing the hard limits of TrackIR with VR shows that you don't understand the problem. 

 

You might not be affected by discomfort and nausea by a hard cockpit limit, but there are enough people that are affected.

 

8 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

If you want to give server operators an option to restrict VR users, just give them the option to not allow VR users in the server. Problem solved for a lot less hassle.

 

Separating the increasing number of VR users from "Flat" users is not a good idea.

 

I agree with you that this topic is extremely exaggerated by a few loud people. 

 

Fox

[Baldrick33]

I would be keen to understand how significant an advantage a VR user poking their head out of the cockpit is perceived to be. I get the immersion aspect and as someone who places immersion above gaming competitiveness I try to avoid it and would welcome a solution that doesn't involve disabling 6dof tracking as that is a much bigger immersion killer for me.

 

The biggest issue I can see is that when I initially put my headset on because I have started it with the headset on the floor beside me and use the monitor to select a mission, I sometimes initially start with a view outside of the plane until I hit my VR reset button. So I guess someone could move around, reset VR and achieve an arcade view if they really were that determined. Having the view fogged/blacked out outside of the cockpit would solve this.

 

Other than that it seems a bit of a mountain out of a molehill, there is so much we can do which can't be monitored like connecting a hotas and pedals to a swivel chair in VR which is ridiculously unrealistic but how would you police that? Someone adept at using trackir can do a 360 sweep in with a minimal movement of their head, we can bind awkward to get at switches in the real plane to a hotas the plane doesn't have, the list goes on. Doesn't mean we shouldn't aim for realism wherever possible but we some things we just have to accept and in the scheme of things don't seem that big a deal.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Baldrick33

[Knock-Knock]

There are those that use keyboard and mouse, and there are those that have spent gazillions on high end controlers.

There are those sitting with a single 17" 4:3 monitor, and there are those with ginormous multiple projector setups and homecockpits, with true FOV.

There are those with old underpowered hardware and old low res/FOV VR headsets, and there are those with state of the art high end hardware at the latest and greatest VR hi-res hi-FOV headsets.

There are those that can barely pull 25 fps out of there system at lowest possible settings, and there are those that can do 100 fps at the highest settings.

 

Now lets pull all the stops on leveling the playing field from any sort of minimal 'advantage' one virtual pilot might have over another, cause some people just cant handle being shot down from time to time. Must be a hardware advantage or exploit that is the reason.

 

[eaglecash867]

In all of my years of flying in a wide array of aircraft IRL, I can honestly say that I have never had the need or desire to press my head against a window or canopy.  VR users may not be "limited" by the canopy limit like TrackIR users, but TrackIR users can all look behind them by barely moving their head which gives them a HUGE advantage, and that's not even considered cheating.  Its just how that system works.  We could also get into how much of an advantage VR users have over TIR users  just by having depth perception (a big advantage in missile and gun avoidance), but how far down the rabbit hole do we want to go?   Like Baldrick said, there are so many things that people do that are completely unrealistic, all of which are things that can't really be policed.  No matter what you do, cheaters are always going to find a way to cheat.  Just act like you're flying a real plane and you'll be fine.  If others want to turn their sim into a Nintendo game by using unrealistic cheats so they can "win", there's not much you can do about that. 

[Eldur]

On 8/14/2021 at 9:29 AM, iFoxRomeo said:

No!

 

Comparing the hard limits of TrackIR with VR shows that you don't understand the problem. 

 

You might not be affected by discomfort and nausea by a hard cockpit limit, but there are enough people that are affected.

 

Spot on. I'm not affected by motion sickness either, but it feels plain wrong in the other sim if activated and I'm extremely happy to be able to turn that off. I still hate when that constantly happens after coming out of views other than F1 or even just pausing the sim, especially since that's a slow animation during which head movement basically gets nullified until the cringeshow finally has stopped. Please don't give us that utterly bad implementation ever in DCS. Just don't.

 

I'd prefer the pixelation thing TBH. Much better than that "what's up with my eyes now?" blur filter as you instantly recognize it's a filter. And let's be fair: I'd be glad to be able to fly DCS with 90fps in a G2... just stick the head outside, tadaa!