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F-35 and its future. Was the project an overall failure?


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21 hours ago, probad said:

please we're dying to learn about this speed brake gaffe

 

F35B and also inside the fuel tanks....and a few other places.

 

New tech makes the F35 all versions fly extremely well and its capabilities are greatly enhanced. It is all weather no problem.  

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10 hours ago, SUBS17 said:

F35 vs J31:

 

F-35 vs FC-31 (J-31) - USA vs China Fighter Competition- - YouTube

 

Both aircraft fly extremely good.

YouTube is full of these videos, most of them are totally useless and pointless, they are mostly made so people comment "yeah my country buys this one so it's the best".  🤔 Until you start to consider the military doctrine, how the jets are going to be used, what the country can dedicate to train its pilots and manage at least 180 hours of flight per year, what other aircraft this jet has to operate with, what the missions are... any comparison based on public spec sheets are totally useless imho. Most people agree that official spec sheets are bogus anyway, yet suddenly they are enough to say that one jet is "better" than another? Give me a break.

 

Considering it's been over a century since humanity started to make combat planes, I certainly hope we know how to make a plane "fly extremely good". What's really interesting, what makes them 5th gen, we have only partial and sometimes voluntarily misleading information about.


Edited by Qiou87
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25.03.2021 в 23:13, SUBS17 сказал:

In regard performance and that is all the J31 is a very good aircraft but how many are there flying at the moment?

What difference does it make? In 5-10 years there'll be hundreds of J-31s

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On 3/15/2021 at 9:33 AM, probad said:

please we're dying to learn about this speed brake gaffe

 

If you want to know it is 1/4 of an inch and activated whenever the afterburner notch was passed. So full afterburner engaged would always activate the speed brake denying transonic/supersonic performance. So that was removed and that is why the performance is so good with the F35 in some of those videos. There are more patents of improvements, go to there and have a look.  

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22 hours ago, probad said:

sorry im having trouble finding them can you direct me???

 

Try this, virtual speed brake which comes on after the afterburner notch.(and also those other things pop out a little bit)

 

New tech coming to the F35 is similar to whats on the A-10CII, it is going to be an extremely good aircraft.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My take on this, and ignoring all sensationalism on youtube, is that I always felt that there was a fighter gap below the F-35 on the USA and indeed many of European countries, and others in Asia.

There is a strong demand for a lighter jet that can perform QRA, Intercept, dogfighting and lighter A-G tasks better and cost far less per hour. The Gripen now occupies that slot but it is the only option, and is a bit too light for some requirements, a slighter heavier plane that could be a true F-16 successor is perfectly viable complement type.

 

If we ever see live images of planes taking off for the first night of a new conflict, those will be the F-35's for countries that can afford them, then F15EX's and then the new light jet as the work horse after advanced threats have been taken out.


Edited by Pilotasso
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Some new tech coming to the F35 includes new Navigation Systems and Auto-Land. And the ability to see everything in all weather including a moving carrier. 

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On 4/8/2021 at 12:17 AM, Pilotasso said:

My take on this, and ignoring all sensationalism on youtube, is that I always felt that there was a fighter gap below the F-35 on the USA and indeed many of European countries, and others in Asia.

There is a strong demand for a lighter jet that can perform QRA, Intercept, dogfighting and lighter A-G tasks better and cost far less per hour. The Gripen now occupies that slot but it is the only option, and is a bit too light for some requirements, a slighter heavier plane that could be a true F-16 successor is perfectly viable complement type.

 

If we ever see live images of planes taking off for the first night of a new conflict, those will be the F-35's for countries that can afford them, then F15EX's and then the new light jet as the work horse after advanced threats have been taken out.

 

 

I agree. It's simple: there will in the end be less F-35's fielded than originally planned, which is not so unusual (I remember this was hotly debated on this forum years ago) , and aircraft will be continued for which the F-35 was claimed to be also a replacement. They are already on the lookout for an A-10C replacement, a SpecOps light aircraft, and as you say a lighter, true F-16 follow-up (such as Gripen E ? ) or something based on the Boeing T7 RedHawk would make a lot of sense. The Navy is already planning a next gen Super Hornet replacement. It is absolutely not clear what the role of the F-35C is in this all, I guess they will also reduce the order. Btritain is rumoured to think about cutting down their F-35B follow-on order also. 

 

The only reason Belgium, one of the 4 first European F-16 countries, bought the F-35 is because the Dutch already bought them and we work closely together. In reality we will normally never fly First Day of War missions, and we simply cannot afford to fly +35.000 $ / flight hour jets. That will very soon become a major problem once the F-35 gets delivered. 

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If they were to do a DCS F35, then they would do 2 versions and it would be a noticeable difference between what the F35 was like a year ago and what it is soon to be. There is a big change in performance and capability, it was like a lemon but is in the process of getting fixed. So it would be DCS F35 A/B/C early version and then DCS F35 A/B/C upgraded. It would be a similar story about the MV22 Osprey where the previous version is much more complex and difficult top operate in comparison to the upgraded version which may eventually be available to the civilian market. 

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My take is that, while it's fun to theorize and thought experiment my/your way through this question, any conclusion you/I or others come up with on this forum is probably wrong. And IF by chance or by a complete understanding of the 35's situation, an "opinion" ,or take, was correct (or the least wrong), I doubt any of us would be able to tell the difference between a correct conclusion and an incorrect one.  

 

So I guess if you have an opinion and belief of whether or not the 35 was (ultimately) a success or failure, I would also advise holding the notion that you can just as well be completely wrong and be willing to admit that, as well as be open to the idea that depending on the type of conflicts that the 35 gets into, it will definitely shape the perception of the program and be a fair or unfair component in the final judgement, long after the 35 has served and is finally retired, and your willingness to change your opinion should reflect that as new information comes in. 

 

As far as my impression goes, it seems to have failed in the cost savings dept, succeeded in integrating new technologies into the airframe (with teething problems of course, as with most new airframes that used new tech in their time), still has an undetermined and hotly debated combat/dogfighting effectiveness (this includes the effectiveness of its stealth), and also undetermined long-term effects this airframe may have on geopolitical influence. 


Edited by WelshZeCorgi
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I'm fairly confident that the F-35 will be a useful replacement for the F-16, especially in highly contested airspace, for anti-air, SEAD & light strike missions.

 

What I don't foresee it doing well at all is replacing the A-10. The USAF and probably other NATO air forces need a dedicated CAS & interdiction platform for low intensity / COIN ops. That's a role that the A-10C fulfils very well indeed. If the USAF is serious about replacing it what they need is some sort of modernised A-1 Skyraider rather than a 5th gen stealth platform that has comparatively limited loiter time and, if it wishes to remain stealthy, VERY limited air to mud carriage capacity.

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On 4/20/2021 at 6:43 PM, probad said:

if you need to be stealthy coin is not your priority

 

I agree entirely. I'm sure the F-35 would be very capable in contested airspace but if it's intended to replace the A-10C then it would be a very bad fit for that mission: an A-10C replacement probably doesn't need to be all that stealthy but what it does need is loiter time and air-to-mud carriage capacity, ease of maintenance and high physical robustness, most of which is sacrificed in the F-35 in favour of excellent stealth characteristics. The F-35 and A-10 are meant for entirely different missions, and the former is consequently a poor replacement for the latter.

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^^^^ that's why I also think F-35 replacing the A-10 along with all other aircraft was just a marketing punch line to get funds for the program, one that the grunt on the ground would rather wish people would forget.

 

There were a few commentators that said good thing F-35 came along when the F-117 was retiring, and that's not an accidental comment. It fills the same role when doing the AG missions, except that's it cures the absence of AA capability on the Nighthawk.

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