can you land with forward airspeed?

[F1000Starfire]

Since the MI-24 can do rolling take-off, is it also able to land on a runway with some forward momentum?

[Morrov]

I don't see why not, though I don't think I've ever seen one do so IRL

Edited February 27, 2021 by Morrov

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Yes, rolling landings are possible and practised often. If you own the Mi-8, there is a manual entry on rolling landing procedures.

[Viktor_UHPK]

Maximum airspeed for rolling landings is 80 kph.

[F1000Starfire]

3 hours ago, Viktor_UHPK said:

Maximum airspeed for rolling landings is 80 kph.

wow, that's impressive!

[Lurker]

Rolling landing is probably the easiest way to land a helicopter in DCS World. There is almost no danger of entering VRS. Obviously you should only attempt to do one on a runway. Wheels are kind of a must, though I don't think skids and tarmac mix that well at anything faster than walking pace 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Lurker

[Kerberos]

here at he end you can see a Mi-24p doing a rolling landing in Syria:

 

[Diesel_Thunder]

Rolling takeoffs and landings are a thing with wheeled helicopters, and is normally practiced like doing the same from a hover.

 

A practical example I've seen is with twin engine choppers with an engine out. If an engine goes out or is shutdown for some reason during flight, there may not be enough power to sustain a hover with the remaining engine due to power available, weight, and environmental conditions (hot/humid). This is where the rolling landing really shines as you stay in translational lift the whole way down and can execute a missed approach if the need arises.

[Rick50]

I've seen several videos of practice auto-rotation emergency landings (practicing), where skid helis do the same on pavement. They don't roll so much as slide and then stop!  Although in one vid, it was an Army Kiowa, and touchdown was a wee bit bumpy... collapsed one side of the skids!  But yea, do a youtube search. Now, that said, I've never heard or seen heli pilots do this on purpose for anything other than autorotation, be it real emergency or training/practice/familiarisation.  It's gotta be somewhat risky on skids. 

 

I think what they do is try to get the thing down on its skids, but then maintain some lift on the rotors, to gently settle the heli and come to a smoother than abrupt stop, and since the goal is to get to the ground before your rotor stops, once you are contacted with ground, you can relax, because loss of rotor speed is now a non-issue. At that point its no longer about life saving, but avoiding airframe and rotor damage.

[F1000Starfire]

18 hours ago, Rick50 said:

 Now, that said, I've never heard or seen heli pilots do this on purpose for anything other than autorotation, be it real emergency or training/practice/familiarisation.  It's gotta be somewhat risky on skids. 

 

I was asking because the Hind has wheels and can do rolling takeoffs

[Andurula]

23 hours ago, Rick50 said:

 Now, that said, I've never heard or seen heli pilots do this on purpose for anything other than autorotation, be it real emergency or training/practice/familiarisation. 

 

its a common thing to do when the helicopter is too heavy to hover in ground effect.  A lot of the bigger helicopters I know can haul more weight than they can hover with so rolling landings are a requirement.

[Mars Exulte]

4 hours ago, Andurula said:

 

its a common thing to do when the helicopter is too heavy to hover in ground effect.  A lot of the bigger helicopters I know can haul more weight than they can hover with so rolling landings are a requirement.

 

  And thus an extremely obvious point is made that I never thought about. Just a few days ago, I was wondering what determined skids vs wheels... There ya go. And now that I think of it, every wheeled helicopter I can think of offhand is a big bugger. Rolling takeoff and landing. Damn. So obvious in hindsight.

[Rick50]

7 hours ago, Andurula said:

 

its a common thing to do when the helicopter is too heavy to hover in ground effect.  A lot of the bigger helicopters I know can haul more weight than they can hover with so rolling landings are a requirement.

Well sure, but I was specifically talking about skid helis "sliding" on their skids, the only time I've ever seen that was for auto-rotations. I only brought it up because it's an unusual situation that most never see.

 

Wheeled rolling takeoffs and landings, yea, seen Hinds and CH-53's doing that as normal operations. And many other wheeled helis will taxi around on wheels too, like Black Hawks, Apaches and such.

[Marsvinet]

7 hours ago, Rick50 said:

Well sure, but I was specifically talking about skid helis "sliding" on their skids, the only time I've ever seen that was for auto-rotations. I only brought it up because it's an unusual situation that most never see.

 

Wheeled rolling takeoffs and landings, yea, seen Hinds and CH-53's doing that as normal operations. And many other wheeled helis will taxi around on wheels too, like Black Hawks, Apaches and such.

It's been a while since I read it, but in Chickenhawk, the author has a part where he describes taking off with a severly overloaded Huey in the Vietnamese highlands. It amounted to something like "Pull as much collective as allowed, push stick forward, slide the skids along the steel mat runway until enough airspeed to start bouncing into the air". So it is possible and has been used, how popular it is I cannot say. 

[VampireNZ]

4 hours ago, Marsvinet said:

It's been a while since I read it, but in Chickenhawk, the author has a part where he describes taking off with a severly overloaded Huey in the Vietnamese highlands. It amounted to something like "Pull as much collective as allowed, push stick forward, slide the skids along the steel mat runway until enough airspeed to start bouncing into the air". So it is possible and has been used, how popular it is I cannot say. 

 

Talking of bouncing, reading Gunship Ace about a chap flying Hips and Hinds in Africa etc and he was saying in the Hip when he was hot and heavy he used to just roll along, pull as much collective as he could to get a little height, then dump the collective and pull again and hope the bounce from the landing gear shocks was enough to help bounce him up over the trees ahead lol.

[Andurula]

21 hours ago, Rick50 said:

Well sure, but I was specifically talking about skid helis "sliding" on their skids, the only time I've ever seen that was for auto-rotations. I only brought it up because it's an unusual situation that most never see.

Due to the wear and tear its not a normal technique but when they have to go, they have to go and if that means pullilng coll

ective and sliding along until they can get enough translational lift to climb then that is what they do.  Skid plates are typically installed that will absorb some of the wear and prevent the tubes from taking the damage but its a rough technique for rough situations. 

 

In the opposite situation, landing, if you gotta come in hot and fast you probably don't want to fuss around transitioning to a hover and gently lowering it down.  In that case you ride it onto the skids and slide to a quick stop.  Its not something you would do routinely but the machine was designed to do it and survive.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Andurula
bad spelling

[SFC Tako]

yes

[Hammer1-1]

On 3/1/2021 at 3:19 AM, Lurker said:

Rolling landing is probably the easiest way to land a helicopter in DCS World. There is almost no danger of entering VRS. Obviously you should only attempt to do one on a runway. Wheels are kind of a must, though I don't think skids and tarmac mix that well at anything faster than walking pace 

 

They do it all the time in the Huey.

[VampireNZ]

1 hour ago, Hammer1-1 said:

They do it all the time in the Huey.

 

Indeed - the Huey skids have replaceable skid shoes to allow, well - skidding. 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by VampireNZ