F14 or f16 can only get one

[DeathLight]

I watch a lot of videos about dcs on bvr so I know what I’m doing 

and I’m only maybe like 1 and a half month in dcs 

which one should I get

 

#1 i want something that can bvr 

#2 which one is easier to fly and learn ?

#3 which one would you get in my shoes?

#4 which one is more fun to play?

 

 

ps why when I buy something from there website (E.D) it won’t go through. They say

 

This is a problem somewhere between us. Your bank has already taken your funds. Our bank has not yet received them. Sometimes the payment is delayed in time (up to three days). Please wait a while. Provide us with a screenshot of the transaction (pdf). We will control your order.

 

where can I find the transaction pdf ? What is that?
 

[Tenkom]

Get the viper. 

[Dograw75]

F14 is much harder to learn, but more complete.  F16 is still gaining features though.  I would probably choose Viper in your shoes.

[WHOGX5]

F-14 is more complete but the F-16 is a better aircraft. Main downside of the F-14 is you can't really use it to it's full potential without a human RIO. You can still have tonnes of fun in it however.

[Jackjack171]

4 hours ago, DeathLight said:

 

I watch a lot of videos about dcs on bvr so I know what I’m doing 

and I’m only maybe like 1 and a half month in dcs 

which one should I get

 

#1 i want something that can bvr 

#2 which one is easier to fly and learn ?

#3 which one would you get in my shoes?

#4 which one is more fun to play?

 

 

ps why when I buy something from there website (E.D) it won’t go through. They say

 

This is a problem somewhere between us. Your bank has already taken your funds. Our bank has not yet received them. Sometimes the payment is delayed in time (up to three days). Please wait a while. Provide us with a screenshot of the transaction (pdf). We will control your order.

 

where can I find the transaction pdf ? What is that?
 

The F-14 is super fun and if you want a real man's airplane, then that is the way to go!

Neither one is easy! You have a very steep learning curve if it has in fact, only been a month and a half into DCS. The F-16 is fun but the tech in it has a learning/patience/time curve. You still have a lot to learn with the F-14 but it takes patience and repetition to handle her. You will spend hours trying to feel her out aerodynamically! You cannot just simply bend her around in the air without consequences.
In the F-16 you will spend hours learning the systems. She's fun and it is rewarding when you learn how to operate the TGP and such! I own both and I have a blast with them but it took time!

You may want to ask yourself: What is it that you hope to get out of whichever module and what it is you hope to achieve?

Kick-ass decision either way you go!

[ilikepie]

viper is half baked and can be frustration,  tomcat has more polish but Jester is half baked (IMO) and can be frustration. both are great modules and pits look great. might come down to do you like FBW or stick n rudder work?

 

either is a great choice and neither is easy, they're just different.

[Steel Jaw]

Ok.

 

I have both.  And the Hornet.

 

The F14 is complete and an EXCELLENT product.  The F16 is not complete.

 

But the F16 is the better tactical jet, more versatile and newer avionics (I hate steam gauges).

 

Having flown the DCS Tomcat quite alot, Im amazed it had such a sterling reputation:  as a tactical jet, frankly, I think its junk.

 

Get the Viper.  Or the Hornet (better than the Viper IMHO as a tactical jet and yo have CV ops).

[G.J.S]

The F-16 will be easier to fly for sure, but if you wish to learn to FLY an aircraft, then I would go F-14 - it’s NOT FBW, so you will need to learn how to manage your aircraft, and learn to think several moves ahead in an engagement so as to manage your energy.
 

PROPER aircraft will always make you a better pilot. Flying laptops numb the senses.

(Yep, I’m waaay over 40 years of age lol). 

[Jackjack171]

Just now, garyscott said:

The F-16 will be easier to fly for sure, but if you wish to learn to FLY an aircraft, then I would go F-14 - it’s NOT FBW, so you will need to learn how to manage your aircraft, and learn to think several moves ahead in an engagement so as to manage your energy.
 

PROPER aircraft will always make you a better pilot. Flying laptops numb the senses.

(Yep, I’m waaay over 40 years of age lol). 

Amen Brother!

[Vortex225]

Get the F/A-18C. It's better than the Tomcat and Viper.

[Steel Jaw]

37 minutes ago, Echo225 said:

Get the F/A-18C. It's better than the Tomcat and Viper.
 

 

Hook to Steel...Real Men Trap...flare to land equals squat to pee.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Mower

[Jackjack171]

1 hour ago, Echo225 said:

Get the F/A-18C. It's better than the Tomcat and Viper.
 

At least give the man the why! To say one is better than the other and not offer him a proper example to your claim is just adolescent bro! Don't be that guy!

38 minutes ago, Mower said:

 

Hook to Steel...Real Men Trap...flare to land equals squat to pee.

 

Kick-ass statement bro!

[Biggus]

This is really, really hard to answer.

 

The Tomcat is the more complete module.  It's not perfect.  It's subject to bugs that last extended periods because ED makes unannounced changes that impact it (see the 'delayed flight weight increase' bug for example), Jester can be painful to use until you learn how to manage him and how he uses the radar and it's a little more limited in terms of air-to-ground stuff.

 

The Viper is relatively modern and fairly simple to use once you learn the systems, but carries two fewer missiles and the comparative load of countermeasures is very low.  It's an absolute rocket ship but is hamstrung by it's low fuel load to a degree.

 

Both are superficially simple.  But they're deeply complex and will both take a fair bit of time to learn how to use them effectively.  Sure, Jester is going to mostly manage your radar but you are going to need to learn how the radar works in order to use him properly.  Nearly every criticism of Jester by new Tomcat pilots is misplaced and it's the limitations of the AWG-9 that they blame him for.  In the Viper, you'll need to work the radar yourself and you'll face some pretty similar limitations but with an added layer of signals processing that will make it pretty simple to use.

 

The Viper is easier to fly due to it's FBW nature.  You can really abuse it and it will probably not bite you very hard.  The Tomcat, you pull too hard at the wrong time and your wings are going to break off the plane.  But it's super communicative if you're attentive enough to the buffeting and creaking sounds.

 

In terms of practically employing them as BVR platforms, I find the Tomcat far more survivable.  I am probably more confident in a knife-fight in the Tomcat, too.  But I am not as experienced in the Viper and this is probably my own limitation.  There's something to be said for launching a Phoenix at 45nm on a slow moving but still hot bandit and having a decent chance at hitting it.  On the other hand, assuming I survive long enough to be Winchester, I find it much faster to refuel and rearm the Viper than the Tomcat.

 

I hope this helps.  I'd really lean towards the Tomcat if BVR is your thing.

[TobiasA]

Viper is cool, but still lacking basic features and development is slow. The Tomcat is more challenging to fly, but far more complete and modelled in depth. Plus, you have carrier ops and the Phoenix.

That being sad, the Viper is fast, easy to fly and a multirole aircraft. If you have the time to wait, this is your choice. As for the plane, go for the viper- but only if you can live with its bugs, flaws and slow development it currently has. If you want an awesome, pretty much finished plane and manage to get friends with jester and you are more into A-A, the tomcat might be a better choice. It also depends on your "entry level". The Viper is easy to learn since many of it is not implemented yet. A-A mainly works, LGB's on fixed targets are alright. Interdiction with CBU's or Mav's is fine as long as you don't rely on A-G radar which we don't have yet. HARM's work, but the HARM targeting system doesn't- only HAS and prebriefed do. It still is a valid Wild Weasel, being fast, nimble and agile with good avionics. It's fly by wire system protects you against yourself, it is nearly impossible to depart if you don't seriously mess up and leave the controllable area in three axes at the same time. I have not experienced compressor stalls yet. The only difficult thing is landing it the right way, but that comes quite easy once you get it. The basic rule is "flare or die" which is quite different to the navy guys. Put it on the runway like a hornet, and you go and search your wheels in the grass somewhere near the touchdown point. Still way easier than putting a plane down on a boat.

The Tomcat is just a pure beast, made for BVR fights yet still very capable of dogfighting. You get carrier ops, you get an incredible beauty with a lot of A-A stuff hanging under its wings and it can even do basic A-G missions. It has the longest BVR reach ever, and the two-seater is really well made. The pilot really flies the plane, and therefore, his workload is more flying the plane instead of fuzzing with the radar so much.

I have the Viper and tried the Tomcat in the free trial. The one reason why I do not own it yet is that I want to be able to fly my viggen with the same confidence and knowledge that I do have on the Viper before starting another plane. Heatblur did set a benchmark with both, even if both have some work remaining.

That hornet argument however is also valid- it is a jack of all trades with mostly the Viper benefits + navy ops. And it is far more feature complete than the viper since this one is actually being worked on.

The reason I do not have it is that I want to learn the Viggen first (same as the tomcat) and I won't buy it until the Viper gets some love. It feels like the money I did spend on the viper (and some maps) actually goes to the hornet and the supercarrier. So... Why not going for the hornet?

 

Another option that you should consider: What do the people that you fly with usually fly? The hornet is flown quite often. I think that the order is as followed:
- F/A-18
- A-10C  (no choice for you, but very detailled and common)
- F-14 / F-16 / Viggen / JF-17
For swedish squadrons, insert Viggen on place 2, not having one is treason. The hornet has quite a large player base since it is far more feature complete than the F-16, it is pretty easy to handle since it is fly-by-wire, has navy ops, is quite capable of BVR and is multirole.

In your case (and probably I should have done the same) I think you should really look for the hornet, unless you either come from a specific other sim featuring the F-16 or have no interest in carrier ops. The supercarrier module goes very nice with it, and the tomcat will benefit from this as well. So if navy aviation is a thing for you, the hornet is probably the wiser choice. It is also easier to hook up with anyone flying hornets. I know tons of guys having the viper, but not flying it, or not buying it because it is so far away from being complete.
As for single player, there are very little single player missions or campaigns to enjoy on the viper. You can still use the hornet in a pure A-A role, and in dogfights, it is currently one of the most, if not the most capable aircraft in DCS.

[5ephir0th]

Tomcat with human RIO is incredibly fun but is very demanding if you want to fly it the right way and you get carrier ops. It’s a very unique plane

 

Viper is a much more capable plane and, man, i love the cockpit in VR, the bubble canopy is so great, specially for dogfight.

[VampireNZ]

Have them both - but spend most my time in the Viper. Big fan due to many hours flying Falcon 4.0 back in the day. Viper is far from complete but is a much more capable jet and you will have the whole selection of roles covered once it is complete - meaning far more versatile to fly.

 

I am a huge Tomcat fan (growing up in the 80's and that thing was insane awesome for the day) hence I bought it - and do fly it now and then for novelty fun as it is beautifully built, textures are amazing etc. But Jester annoys you and not having control of important things like radar and pod make it a bit 'hands-off' really in SP mode. Yes it is a 'stick and rudder' plane - but TBH if you want that just buy the F-86 Sabre as well! That thing is great fun and despite having most modules (except the Hornet...hate that thing lol) - I find myself solely flying either the Viper for modern-day jet stuff or Sabre for some pure stick-and-rudder steam gauge fun (and Mi-8 awaiting the Hind).

 

I can't really recommend the Hornet as I hate it and don't own it, but I guess if you want a modern FBW jet and naval ops/carrier landings then that is your only choice. Just comes down to the age-old question...Navy or Air Force

[SCPanda]

Viper will kick Tomcat's ass easily in a BVR fight. Phoenix missile is so easy to notch now. Period. 

 

Tomcat's avionics is trash. Hornet's energy is trash.

 

Viper is the King of BVR. 

[Oceandar]

Look at the top statistic in MP server like Blue Flag and Growling Sidewinder and the top fighter sitting in the first place (for A2A kills) is F-16 Viper. Its arguably easy to fly and fast (some says its rocket with wings).
The Tomcat is actually better in BVR as long as you fly with Human RIO. Flying alone.... well not so much you can do. It was designed as two seat fighter then its the way you should fly it.

My 2 cents.

[Jayhawk1971]

Tomcat! All the way.

 

The Viper is so easy to fly that a 16-year old kid could steal one to break out his dad who was held prisoner in some generic middle-eastern country. 

 

The Tomcat at least requires you to have dated an Admiral's daughter (Penny Benjamin).

 

Seriously, as already mentioned in the thread in the HB subforum, if it's either the Tomcat or the Viper now, get the Tomcat, and wait at least a couple of months (and maybe a spring sale?) to give ED time to work on the F-16 some more. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Jayhawk1971

[Strong05]

Viper.  Love the Tomcat but Jester/Radar kills it for me.  I can never get a target lock in the tomcat, and if I were any any other full fidelity module, it would be a piece of cake to get a lock, but all I hear in the tomcat is "sorry can't do that", followed by everything going black from getting shot down.

[TobiasA]

I actually think about getting the F-14 and improving my "market value" by becoming a RIO. Basically... learn flying, get the aircraft under control so I can handle it as a pilot (just to be able to handle the plane safely and with some level of confidence like other modules)- and then becoming a good RIO.

 

Sounds fun tbh. Should I do it? Anyone doing exactly that approach?

[notproplayer3]

My two cents:

 

Both are excellent with the f14 being the most polished of the two but from a pure gameplay perspective, if you exclusively play single player as I do, you may find that the F14 isn't actually as fun to use in combat, why ? Because you are flying the plane but you won't interact with a lot of combat systems, the only thing you'll do is telling jester to lock up an enemy and then shoot and that's about it. Sure you can move seats and try to do everything yourself but it will break the immersion. That's in my opinion the core disadvantage of twin seaters with totally independent stations from a singleplayer gameplay perspective.

The f16c on the other hand, you'll interact with all of the systems in your plane to make yourself a combat machine, you are the one in control of everything and it makes it frankly more interesting to do combat in.

16 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

I actually think about getting the F-14 and improving my "market value" by becoming a RIO. Basically... learn flying, get the aircraft under control so I can handle it as a pilot (just to be able to handle the plane safely and with some level of confidence like other modules)- and then becoming a good RIO.

 

Sounds fun tbh. Should I do it? Anyone doing exactly that approach?

Are you planning to do that in multiplayer ? It's very hard in my opinion to get good combat practice in single player with the RIO because the pilot AI simply can't fly as you want him to fly in combat. Sure you can learn how to operate everything in the RIO seat but you won't have much fun if you can't use those skills in proper missions right ?

[TobiasA]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb notproplayer3:

Are you planning to do that in multiplayer ? It's very hard in my opinion to get good combat practice in single player with the RIO because the pilot AI simply can't fly as you want him to fly in combat. Sure you can learn how to operate everything in the RIO seat but you won't have much fun if you can't use those skills in proper missions right ?

Yes, I know some people who do have the F-14... And most of them seem to miss a good RIO. 

So yes, I am thinking about multiplayer. 

[notproplayer3]

3 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

Yes, I know some people who do have the F-14... And most of them seem to miss a good RIO. 

So yes, I am thinking about multiplayer. 

Perfect ! Learning the RIO seat is really something that can be quite fun at first and it sure will benefit other f14 pilots in multiplayer.

Edited March 6, 2021 by notproplayer3

[Steel Jaw]

Single engine, single crew, my rules...Viper.