So many Friendly fires. Far beyond normal.

[Falken2]

I already reported a friendly fire between AI packages. It happens again and again. In one mission 2 kills :

1. Trimmer killed fish

2. Phoenix 12 (my wingman) killed Trimmer

 

Last mission : I got killed by Trimmer : I got a F18 lock warning on my EWR than a missile warning <M> I never knew before : it was trimmer's AIM 120 ! 

 

I never saw so many (in fact never) AI friendly fires in any missions or campaigns, so I guess something goes wrong in Operation Pontus

[mporlier]

44 minutes ago, Falken2 said:

I already reported a friendly fire between AI packages. It happens again and again. In one mission 2 kills :

1. Trimmer killed fish

2. Phoenix 12 (my wingman) killed Trimmer

 

Last mission : I got killed by Trimmer : I got a F18 lock warning on my EWR than a missile warning <M> I never knew before : it was trimmer's AIM 120 ! 

 

I never saw so many (in fact never) AI friendly fires in any missions or campaigns, so I guess something goes wrong in Operation Pontus

Stupid question but do you activate your IFF?

[Falken2]

Do I activate my IFF ?

I suppose so, since I get datalink and all the symbology that tells me if contacts are friend, unknown, or hostile.

To be honest I never bothered to activate it or not, don't know how to do it. I just checked the manual provided by ED (file date : february 13th 2021), it doesn't tell much about. 

I also have to confess I use auto start the aircraft (LWin + home). It never was a problem before this campaign (or before the latest beta version : I used the stable release before).

[petritis]

33 minutes ago, Falken2 said:

Do I activate my IFF ?

I suppose so, since I get datalink and all the symbology that tells me if contacts are friend, unknown, or hostile.

To be honest I never bothered to activate it or not, don't know how to do it. I just checked the manual provided by ED (file date : february 13th 2021), it doesn't tell much about. 

I also have to confess I use auto start the aircraft (LWin + home). It never was a problem before this campaign (or before the latest beta version : I used the stable release before).

Hey, this issue never occurred to us during testing.
 

Could you please provide a track file so we can a have a look. 

 

 

[Falken2]

Would an ACMI file (for tacview) be OK ? Otherwise I will play the mission once more and save the track if some interestings things like friendly kills happen. I think you have to specifically save the track, right ? 

[gregzagk]

20 hours ago, Falken2 said:

Would an ACMI file (for tacview) be OK ? Otherwise I will play the mission once more and save the track if some interestings things like friendly kills happen. I think you have to specifically save the track, right ? 

Hey, yes an ACMI file would be great too. 

No need to replay it. Yes please, in case you would like to save a track you should select this option on mission end. 

 

Thanks a lot 

 

Greg

[Falken2]

Hi, 

 

I don't have the ACMI file with the 2 friendly fires. 

 

Here is a ZIP file : http://dl.free.fr/wEvzqyvvE. It contains :

 

1. A screenshot of the debrief where you see the double friendly kill. What I didn't notice :

 

23:23:26 Trimmer kills Fish

23:25:20 Phoenix12 kills Trimmer 

23:26:16 Trimmer kills Mig 29 with an AIM9X  !! 

 

So Trimmer could fire an AIM9X before being killed and the AIM9X could fly more than 54 seconds before killing the MIG : is that possible ? 

 

2. A screenshot of the debrief where I got killed by Trimmer 

 

3. The ACMI file (What a mess. I'm not proud of myself. I really have to debrief and use tacview after each mission and learn). My package (so Hooters) was on SEAD searching for SAMs with HARMs. Other Packages were on CAP with lots of AIM120C.

 

 

[Glide]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:25 AM, Falken2 said:

Do I activate my IFF ?

This is not implemented.  The Sidewinder has more fidelity now.  It will switch tracks if a friendly flies in front of it.  It will track missiles.  It will lose track if the sun is low on the horizon.  I watched an Su-34 dodge my 9x from 1.7 nm out!  Lucky bum!  Man this game is fun!

[Falken2]

Yeah I observed the sidewinder was "blinded" by the sun. 

 

But the kills I mentioned were AIM120C kills.

[LooseSeal]

Oddly enough... I've been seeing quite a high number of friendly kills recently in general, not in this campaign only. In my last mission in DCS Liberation mod I saw 2 F-15s shot down by other F-15s with Aim-120s.

 

It always seems to happen if there's a furball and an AI fires into the furball, the Aim-120 loses track of the enemy then re-tracks on the unfortunate friendly that just happens to pass in front of it.

 

To me, that's actually what the missile should be doing. The problem here, I think, is the AI (shockingly...). In reality, you wouldn't be firing into the middle of a dogfight in case you hit a friendly - but this is DCS and the AI will do literally anything as long as it's wrong.

 

Not really sure how you could implement those kinds of rules of engagement into such a basic AI... 

[Dangerzone]

Have to agree with LS - I've seen this happen outside of Pontus - and it seems as though it's happening more. (Either that, or I'm just noticing it more). 

 

Possibly a change in AI coding in the last few months maybe as a guess? 

[Falken2]

I also noticed a difficulty for the radar to maintain a lock. Losing the lock (before the AIM becomes autonomous) would increase those casualties. I also noticed difficulties to acquire a lock. A mig 29 right in front of my nose, 100% hot, less than 20 miles, appearing as a red diamond on my radar display, impossible to lock.

[LooseSeal]

It is definitely something I've only noticed in the last couple of months. So you'd assume something has changed somewhere, either in the AI or how the Aim-120 performs, because it invariably seems to be happening with that missile.

 

As for the locking thing - I've only had problems with the Hornet is in TWS mode. In RWS I lose lock much less, and in STT it's usually pretty stable.