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How to clear ABRIS Tactical Information (stuck from previous mission)


fqa
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Tactical Information (DL and Nav Target Points) are always showing on ABRIS for a specific mission.

 

I understand that ABRIS is able to store information on a persistent (per mission) database, and this might be what has happened.

 

What I am unable to do is to clear old Datalink and Nav Target points from the database. I have tried various things on the CTRL/DTB page but with no luck... I can't find any documentation for clearing data.

 

I know it is called the "Tactical information" from the OPTIONS/CHART page, where I am able to disable the layer entirely - but this does not solve it for me because I need this info for the mission.

 

I am also unable to select the target points with Datalink or PVI to manually clear them one by one.

 

Search for a solution for quite a bit on the net, but no luck there either. So I turn to you.

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Going from memory, here. I'll try to get back with more detail later.

 

From memory, DL targets can be cleared by selecting their index via the DL panel (overhead, left-side). Merely press the correct target type until the symbol is flashing on ABRIS, then hit clear. Alternatively, place the DL mode into off, then set it back to commander. This will clear all DL points.

 

Nav Target points can also be cleared, but I'm a little less sure on how to do this, since I usually just override them as needed and don't bother clearing. It should involve putting the PVI-800 into edit mode (one notch left from the normal operations mode), selecting Nav Target Points, then selecting the correct index and (I'm just guessing, here) pressing clear.

 

Do note that neither of these things (DL targets and Nav Target Points) are done through the ABRIS itself. For all intents and purposes the ABRIS is only partially integrated into the helicopter. It shows information, but doesn't allow you to interface with it in any meaningful way.

 

EDIT:
If the ABRIS is showing the positions of hostile and friendly air defence systems (blue/red circle surrounded by an area shaded by the same colour), then I believe there is no way to clear or modify these in any way except for in the editor.


Edited by Cheetah7798
Fixing Spelling Errors
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I'm not sure if this is a bug. I mean it could be if it doesn't work that way on the IRL Shark, but that might be exactly how it works.

 

Tactical Information - those ABRIS threats can't be changed from in-mission - at best you can hide it.

Data Link Targets can easily be removed by selecting them and clear (no 2nd row button selected).

Anything PVI-800 can't be deleted in-flight - you can only change the points that are already there. Like Cheetah said - not sure these really need clearing unless you were running a multi-sortie thing and chose to repair lasers instead of respawning.

For Black Shark tutorials, visit my channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-LgdvOGP3SSNUGVN95b8Bw

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Thank you for the quick and detailed replies and awesome tips above! Especially on how to clear all DL points - I will try that, but I doubt that will help due to the other details of the problem - still a handy feature! And thanks for letting me know that nav target points are not clearable - was going crazy with all the different ways I had tried...

 

In this case though, the points stuck on tactical information chart/layer are not selectable via Datalink Control Panel, nor the PVI-800, so I have no way of clearing them manually, in editor or otherwise. They are just there, from a previous mission play, and they are (were!) definitely data link target and ingress points, and nav target points.

 

In the editor (I assume you mean "prepare mission"), how would I go about clearing the tactical information from the database?

(I have had no luck with the MENU/CTRL/DTB page so far).


Edited by fqa
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Tactical info comes purely from ground units that represent a threat in your mission, ie. from the mission editor. If those threats exist on your map, they'll exist on your ABRIS. It gets a little more complex, but that's the easy version. There should not be any ABRIS threats if you have no hostile enemy ground units in the map.

You can't select these as targets via Data Link panel or Target Point.

 

I'm not sure of a condition where you have Data Link Targets at time of spawning. Target Points, sure, but not Data Link Targets.

For Black Shark tutorials, visit my channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-LgdvOGP3SSNUGVN95b8Bw

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Just to be clear on what you're referring to, here are the 3 things that have been mentioned so far. Namely "Datalink Targets", "Target Nav Points", and "Air Defence Positions & Range".

tempCapture.jpg

 

Also note, the target nav point text with the black 'x' is only present because the target point was designated in the mission editor. If you manually make these points via co-ordinate input, or shkval/self reference, it will appear as an "Other" type target, identical to the DL panel's, only it will interface with the PVI-800, not the DL panel.

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Thanks again for the help!

 

@Volk. The only reason I refer these as "Tactical Information" is because they can be hidden by hiding the "Tactical Situation" chart layer. See attached images below. But also that the manual says that wingman and target icons are part of the chart. (Sorry about not calling it by the proper name - I honestly misremembered the name when starting this thread).

 

As for having target points at spawning, I believe the ABRIS has the ability to persistently save certain info on a per-map basis in a "database", thus allowing for it to exist each subsequent mission load. The manual refers to at least saving routes, map points and lines, but also "target locations". Not sure if it applies to the DL/NavTgt points. I am trying to decipher the manual as best I can.

 

Also, now a youtube subscriber of yours - good and fun stuff 🙂

 

@Cheetah7798 Thank you for clarifying and the effort you have put down into it! Really appreciate it 🙂 I believe I have been using the correct terminology. I do mean Datalink target and ingress points, and Nav Target Point. See attached images below.

 

At mission start: The "other" box was a manually input Nav Target Point, Diamond, Narrow House and Wide House are obviously DL target and ingress points.

Screen_210226_194117.png

Turning off Tactical Situation Chart Layer

Screen_210226_194821.png

Datalink and Nav Target points are gone.

Screen_210226_194857.png

 

Please take my word for not being able to select these points from Datalink Control Panel or PVI-800. I really don't want to make a video to prove it 😛 But I will if you don't believe me!

 

I have manually set the points in a previous multiplayer run (why you see wingman icons in there as well (multiple because I died - a couple of times...)), and I might have accidently fiddled around in the ABRIS. Anyway, they are now stuck and I can't find a way to remove them.


Edited by fqa
fixing images
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Very interesting, indeed.

 

It's starting to sound more and more like a bug. Out of curiosity, I have four questions:
1. You say you're playing on a multiplayer server when this happened. Does a server/mission restart clear the points? I assume it does.

 

2. Does switching the DL mode to "off" the back to commander/wingman have any effect?

 

3. Were the DL targets sent to you via a wingman, or did you make them youself?

 

4. Do these DL targets still function normally (aside from clearing them). That is, can you select them and ingress to them?

 

Not that it helps, but I'd say it appears to be some sort of multiplayer quirkiness. I've never had this happen in all the times I've played SP or MP. DL and PVI-800 targets have always reset after respawn in my experience.

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@Cheetah7798

1. As I said, the points are there at mission start. Restart does not clear the points.

 

2. Unfortunately no. But that was expected as these are not selectable DL points.

 

3. I created them. Except for the wingman symbols of course.

 

4. Again, no. As I have stated several times - I can't select them. They are only showing up on the ABRIS Tactical Situation chart.

 

This has never happened to me before either, SP or MP. I might have tripped some ABRIS database setting?

 

If it is a bug, I probably have a workaround, but if it is "exactly how it works" (to quote @Volk.), then I would rather want to know how to do, and undo, this.

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23 hours ago, fqa said:

Also, now a youtube subscriber of yours - good and fun stuff

Thanks. ps. I've been promising myself I'd get the next vid out on data link/target stuff for the past 2 weeks, but work has gotten in the way. Next one is incidentally on mission editor loading your ABRIS vs PVI etc, so I've was tweaking the scripts when you posted.

 

I'm suspecting one of two things. Either maybe you're resuming a track file from a previous mission (rather than a clean .miz) and that somehow has these preloaded things - in which case unless that trackfile starts from 'spawn', it might be a bug.

Or that it's just a bug.

 

Reason being on your image there with the data link targets at mission start  - you have TWO wingman ID "2" Sharks on your ABRIS - which is impossible. If you have conflicting IDs, then they go disco-light and flicker between them, but I think that flicker doesn't overlap - ie. you can at any one point in time only see one "2" on the ABRIS. So that's VERY weird.

The waypoint info should stay, and I'm guessing that flight plan is correct.

Also I don't think I've found a way to replicate Data Link icons. You can replicate what the ME does for target points with reference points etc, but for data link targets you'd need to go through painful line-drawing each icon - there's no built-in house-stamp like that Data Link Target:Ingress Point on the ABRIS - it has to come from the PRTz panel.

Either way if it were conventional data link target and wingman circles, you'd be able to cull it with DL:Off or cycling the Wingman/Commander knob like Cheetah said, which should erase all that memory.

So might be a case anyway of making a video/posting a track for ED ;-)

For Black Shark tutorials, visit my channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-LgdvOGP3SSNUGVN95b8Bw

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@Volk.

Looking forward to your next video 🙂 

 

How do I tell if it is a "clean" mission or a track? I am loading a .miz. Also, if I recall correctly, the problem started mid mission.

 

I believe DL memory is not involved here at all. At some point, what ever was on the Tactical Situation chart, got stuck. Because ABRIS has the ability to persistently save some data between mission runs, in the "database", I suspect it is holding on to that data - which is the reason it is stuck, and always there at missions start. Multiple wingman 2 icons, might be due to multiple saves? :confused: Hmm... I think the info first got stuck after my first death/respawn, and I did that twice... (can't be sure now, trying to recall a week back).

 

I am not trying to replicate DL or Nav Target points... I want them gone. Preferably, by clearing the database - unless the whole thing is a bug. If latter, how to I go about posting/reporting to ED?

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The database can only save data in the "prepare mission" mode of the editor between sessions. Respawning within the same session may be an issue.

 

It should be known that the 4 or 5-sided polygon shapes are not really stored in ABRIS. When they are made the ABRIS gets a copy and is associated with a memory object but that's it. If you power cycle the ABRIS you should lose these shadow copies. Despite this the system works perfectly well with rebooted or even simply turned off ABRIS.

 

Multiple wingman marks is just something that should never happen. They should freeze, time out, blink but never duplicate.

 

For a bug report a track, mission, or reproduction steps would be the only practical way.

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please include a short track replay example that we can run passed the team.

 

However I suspect this is intended behaviour. I maybe wrong so will check.

 

thanks

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@Frederf The problem started mid-multiplayer session. I think it was after a death and respawn, and possibly got worse on second death/respawn.

 

@BIGNEWY Track file attached. Let me know if you need anything else! 🙂

 

You should see DL, NavTgt and Wingman symbols on the map right from the start, and can be hidden by turning off the Tactical Situation Chart. I also show that these are not selectable via PVI or DL Control Panel, nor resettable with DL Off and switch to COM.

 

I hope this is the intended behavior, which probably means that there is a neat way to clear it.

ka-50-tactical-situation-stuck.trk


Edited by fqa
Added explanation of track file content.
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Yeah that's baked into the mission file. Inside the track at \ABRIS\Database\NAVIGATION.lua I found 7 entries of type ABRIS_Datalink_Point which corresponds to the 7 extra marks on the ABRIS. If those were in the original .miz file (not the track) then that easily explains the behavior. It's just a goofed up .miz. If they aren't in the original .miz but are in the .trk that's a mystery how they were spontaneously added.

 

I tried to delete those 7 entries and recompile/rezip the track but I must have done something wrong because DCS won't load it.

 

Do you have the original mission file?

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  • 2 months later...

ABRIS does have a function for saving the ABRIS information to the "database", which is meant to save that inside the track / mission file.

 

But as far as I've tried, that function was bugged (didn't work). I've even written my own mod to it so it'd save to a file instead (and I could load it manually in multiplayer).

 

Maybe it now works in single player?

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