My System: Would 32GB Improve It?

[C3PO]

Ah .. here you go:

 

https://valid.x86.fr/vnk06s

[Thinder]

14 minutes ago, C3PO said:

Doing those ranks things now...

 

CPU-Z tell you which speed your controller is going to run your RAM on the SPD page, if XMP 2.0 is selected on your BIOS options, the RAM will run at twice its speed.

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

I think the increase to 32GB will be worth it as I'll use this machine as a video editor and the new beast will be for DCS etc....the new one will have 32GB too. 

Just now, Thinder said:

 

CPU-Z tell you which speed your controller is going to run your RAM on the SPD page, if XMP 2.0 is selected on your BIOS options, the RAM will run at twicw its speed.

 

 

Ahhh. ... will check BIOS now. BRB ...

[C3PO]

Tried the XMP setting and it wouldn’t boot afterwards, so back to what it was...

[Thinder]

1 minute ago, C3PO said:

Tried the XMP setting and it wouldn’t boot afterwards, so back to what it was...

 

OK, do you mean that it won't work at XMP X 2.0?

 

In any case, there are other areas where your system is loosing performances: Check CPU-Z SPD page for the number of ranks, latency, CL16, then your 1080 is also 8GB which makes a difference compared to the 11GB.

[Bossco82]

HI C3PO,

 

Just catching up with this sorry for the delay in replying.

 

#1 You CPU and Dram are getting maxed out by the looks of resource monitor. If the resource monitor screenshot is with 16gb installed then that the dram problem. However XMP should be working.

 

#2. Straight up your GTX 1080 wont run Syria at 4k if you are using textures on high. I have had to tune my 2080ti coupled with a 5600x on a X570 to just about be able to do that. You are also using online multi player which will factor your network connection into any performance problem.

 

So this is my two cents. Get DCS running as smooth as you want offline. Use that to shake down your system for bottlenecks and performance problems. Get a baseline working. After that if MP still under performs you know its the dram capacity or network connection etc.

If you have the FA-18 installed check its mission section. There is a mission called Valley Run. This is a good scenario to test DCS performance. If its smooth in this mission. There is a good chance it will be smooth in most scenario's.

 

#2 Your system, 

13 hours ago, C3PO said:

Tried the XMP setting and it wouldn’t boot afterwards, so back to what it was...

This needs fixing, with your CPU DRAM and MOBO this should be possible. You should also be able to get your CPU running at 4.4ghz minimum safely. Obviously I cant see your Bios options page. I have tried to find an example online to reference. Try setting your dram speed manually to 3200mhz. Then set your dram voltage to 1.35v manually. Try rebooting it then. 

 

Its no good deep diving problems unless we get some basic speeds stable first. XMP should be working. Once XMP is working. Then try a cpu overclock of 4.4ghz using THIS IS A GUESS!!! 1.28vcore as a start. If you can get that working to squeeze a bit of untapped performance from your system. Your cpu running 4.4ghz and your dram running 3200mhz in XMP that should remove a few bottlenecks. Then tweak the settings in DCS to get a smooth playable experience.

 

The more info you share the more I can help. I visit these forums regularly under while the UK is in lockdown.

[Thinder]

2 hours ago, Bossco82 said:

#2 Your system, 

This needs fixing, with your CPU DRAM and MOBO this should be possible. You should also be able to get your CPU running at 4.4ghz minimum safely. Obviously I cant see your Bios options page. I have tried to find an example online to reference. Try setting your dram speed manually to 3200mhz. Then set your dram voltage to 1.35v manually. Try rebooting it then. 

 

Its no good deep diving problems unless we get some basic speeds stable first. XMP should be working. Once XMP is working. Then try a cpu overclock of 4.4ghz using THIS IS A GUESS!!! 1.28vcore as a start. If you can get that working to squeeze a bit of untapped performance from your system. Your cpu running 4.4ghz and your dram running 3200mhz in XMP that should remove a few bottlenecks. Then tweak the settings in DCS to get a smooth playable experience.

 

The more info you share the more I can help. I visit these forums regularly under while the UK is in lockdown.

 

I was unable to figure if this came from the RAM frequency already too high for a 4 X 2 ranks configuration or not, because logically, this CPU should run with a RAM half that fast but with a latency below CL 16, which could be the source of the problem. DDR4-1866/2133, DDR3L-1333/1600 @ 1.35V https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88195/intel-core-i7-6700k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-20-ghz.html

 

At DDR4 he should be running 1866 or 2133 MHz, not 3200 stock, especially with 4 X 2 rank sticks, which can be an issue with the controller and cause it to throttle back, reason why it won't boot if XMP X 2.0 is selected in his BIOS settings, the other possible reason would be different chips from the RAM kits.

 

You can't really mess about with frequencies and ranks with this generation of CPUs, they are not as flexible or capable as the next generations, this CPU combined memory bandwidth is 34.1 GB/s, vs 47.68 GiB/s for a 3600X, the strength of the Intel is not bandwidth but tolerence for lower latencies and I suppose, rank interleaving...

 

4 X 2 ranks at 3200MHz might be too much for the controller to handle.

 

I suggest he compares the 2 sticks to the 4 sticks configuration to see if this has anything to do with the number of sticks and 2 ranks/stick.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Thinder

[Bossco82]

I think your knowledge regarding DDR memory exceeds mine for sure Thinder. It could be down to using 4x sticks against 2x. 

 

However I deep dived some old 6700k and Z170 reviews, browsed a few old forum threads too. 3200mhz on the DDR4 should be totally possible, the problem seems to persist from the bios not setting dram voltage to 1.35v. Just from some digging around. 

Multiplier to 44

BLCK to 100.00 ---(NOT FLCK)

DRAM to 3200 or closest available in the bios

Dram voltage manually set to 1.35

CPU vcore 1.28-1.3. Checking temps thats important.

 

C3PO please please take these as suggestions and remote advise. I would suggest reading a few old 6700k reviews to see the overclocking and dram settings used. However from a 30 minute stroll round some reviews and user threads. What I have suggested should be possible.

 

If this is stable then move on to using MSI Afterburners OC scanner and see if there is any more juice in your GTX 1080. Even achieving an undervolt can decrease your running temps and actually improve in game performance overall.

 

I have been an AMD user for nearly two years now. So if anyone has anymore info on this please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Thinder]

42 minutes ago, Bossco82 said:

I think your knowledge regarding DDR memory exceeds mine for sure Thinder. It could be down to using 4x sticks against 2x. 

 

However I deep dived some old 6700k and Z170 reviews, browsed a few old forum threads too. 3200mhz on the DDR4 should be totally possible, the problem seems to persist from the bios not setting dram voltage to 1.35v. Just from some digging around. 

Multiplier to 44

BLCK to 100.00 ---(NOT FLCK)

DRAM to 3200 or closest available in the bios

Dram voltage manually set to 1.35

CPU vcore 1.28-1.3. Checking temps thats important.

 

C3PO please please take these as suggestions and remote advise. I would suggest reading a few old 6700k reviews to see the overclocking and dram settings used. However from a 30 minute stroll round some reviews and user threads. What I have suggested should be possible.

 

If this is stable then move on to using MSI Afterburners OC scanner and see if there is any more juice in your GTX 1080. Even achieving an undervolt can decrease your running temps and actually improve in game performance overall.

 

I have been an AMD user for nearly two years now. So if anyone has anymore info on this please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I understand that you could theorically cram a kit of 3200MHz 4 X sticks on this motherboard using this CPU, but perhaps only if with one rank per stick in his actual 4 X configuration would it be problem free, voltage is fully part of the issue, controllers have to set both bandwidth, frequency and voltage and two ranks X 4 stick at 3200MHz seems a bit much.

 

The CPU doesn't seem to be designed for this configuration, number of ranks and frequency at DDR4, so the issue could come from this, having said that, I'm in the dark as I have no official confirmation of this, better he contact Intel support and ask them, as I did before purchasing my G.SKILL kit, and ask them what's the best settings for what he have got.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

Thanks guys - will have a play around with voltages and frequencies in the BIOS again - could be like a scene from Back to the Future!

[C3PO]

Tried doing the memory boost stuff ... here’s what i get:

 

 

[C3PO]

Ah - I have turned on the overclockers.co.uk performance boost mode - so it should run now at 4.5GHz rather than 4.0GHz (CPU)

[C3PO]

Reduced Terrain Textures in Syria from HIGH to LOW and it has helped a great deal...memory usage now down to 23GB from 29GB. Not a huge reduction in visual quality, noticeable but not massive. 

[C3PO]

Nice performance boost too from the O/C setting:

 

Non-OC:

 

O/C:

Edited February 28, 2021 by C3PO

[C3PO]

...but the GFX card is permanently maxed out both in resources and memory ... so that seems to be the significant bottleneck in the system. The 3090 should be a nice upgrade with the 5900X!

[Thinder]

5 hours ago, C3PO said:

Tried doing the memory boost stuff ... here’s what i get:

 

 

 

1) Try with only the original kit.

 

2) We don't need the CPU data from CPU-Z but the SPD page which will tell us the number of ranks per stick as well as the XMP settings.

 

As this shows, your actual setting is for 2133.84MHz, not 3200MHz, if that's the only setting your BIOS allow to boot with, then it rejects  4 X 3200MHz configuration, we need to know if the 2 X 3200MHz configuration can boot or if 2133.84MHz is the maximum even with two sticks, just make sure the sticks are those you had previously.

 

Since you're planning to upgrade to a 5900X, start researching a RAM kit for it, 4 X 8 GB, 1 rank, CL14, 3200MHz, B.Die like the G.SKILL F4-3200C14Q-32GTZRX, Corsair also make them, if you can't find a 4 X kit, don't make the mistake of buying two separate kits, you might end up with a system that won't boot because the chips are different.

 

You always can settle for a 2 X 16GB kit that will work with your system and be low latency (C14) like this one: G.Skill Trident Z RGB LED DDR4 3200MHz 2x8GB (F4-3200C14D-16GTZR) https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/computer-components/ram-memory/ddr4/g.skill-trident-z-rgb-led-ddr4-3200mhz-2x8gb-f4-3200c14d-16gtzr--p4113789

Edited February 28, 2021 by Thinder

[Bossco82]

5 hours ago, C3PO said:

Ah - I have turned on the overclockers.co.uk performance boost mode - so it should run now at 4.5GHz rather than 4.0GHz (CPU)

 

C3PO whats this? Is this a pre built system from Overclockers UK???

 

Can you get in the Bios and enter settings yourself or does it get over-ridden by an Overclockers pre-set. If you have now changed any components the OCUK pre-set might nor be totally stable and as you have changed the Dram. It could be that causing a problem. I would like to know how the OCUK pre-set is loaded, via Windows or though the Bios????

 

I had a check through an old notebook this morning and my old Intel system couldn't do 3200mhz with 32gb installed and would default back to 2133mhz. However I could run 3000mhz and it gave me a performance boost. So if your up to it try the following,

 

Enter Bios,

Check CPU multi is 45

Check BLCK is 100.00

Check CPU vcore, set to 1.28-1.3vcore. If OCUK have already set a value, let us know what that is and leave it at that.

Enable XMP

Check Dram Voltage, if on "auto" set it to 1.35v

Check Dram frequency, you obviously cant do 3200mhz with 32gb. So see what you can do. Raise it from 2133mhz a few steps at a time see if you can get close to 3000mhz as possible.

 

Until you can get you 3090. Try using MSI Afterburners OC scanner with your GTX 1080. 

 

Remember when you get your AMD chip, this will all change. It will also be a lot lot simpler.

 

Let us know how it goes if you decide to have a go. Take it easy mate.

 

Forgot to add, all of Thinders advise regarding your dram is bang on. I am just trying to help you get the most out of your system as it is right now. Regarding your plans for your 5900x system. Choosing the correct dram to get the most out of such an expensive chip is sound advise. The G Skill sets Thinder suggest are probably the best performing and most compatible available. A lot of people spend big on the CPU and then skimp on the Dram. Not a good idea for your 5900x plans as its all part of the same system. 

 

My advise, we dont know when the component shortage will end. Get the most out of your system now as it is. When it comes to speccing your 5900x, listen to Thinders advise about memory and latencies. It could help you not spend a load of money on the wrong bit.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Bossco82

[C3PO]

Thank you for all this advice - so much appreciated. Well, the specs of the 5900X system are somewhat already decided by Scan.co.uk. The system is:

 

•  
• LN64660116GB SCAN 3XS USB3 FLASH DRIVE£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN1114491AMD Ryzen 9 5900X CPU OEM TRAY£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN1117111AMD Ryzen Far Cry 6 download£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN9977713XS Asus ROG STRIX X570-F GAMI£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN4643713YR WARR 1ST ONSITE 2/3rdRTB£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN9640012x16G CorDomPlatRGB DDR4 3200£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN10774213XS 60cm ASUS ROG Add RGB LED£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN11034213XS CORSAIR 4000D AIRFLOW Temp£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN4827213XS Estimated Build 5 Days£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN10864713XS Game Pass Promo£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN8533713XS Win10 GML H17-10001 Label£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN8108313XS Corsair RM1000X PSU£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN6190933XS System Build£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN7154013XS Technical Support Text£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN576051Upgrade Pro£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN11124613XS Vengeance RTX AMD R7£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN8609013XS Black Bundle Box£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN8691213XS Peripherals Promo£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN1075781Corsair iCueH150i RGB Pro XT3X£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN4570813YR WARR 1ST ONSITE 2/3rd RTB£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN898091Win10 Home Advanced KUK-00001£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN2371E Carriage£11.98 Inc VAT
• LN707541Scan 3XS Logo Mug (Single)£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN7382313XS Logo Corsair MM300 MsePad£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN754751Scan 2m Braided Cable Sleeve 4£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN9963521TB Cors MP600 PCIe v4 NVMe M.£0.00 Inc VAT
• LN1109141**3XS** EVGA 3090 FTW3 ULTRA£0.00 Inc VAT

[Bossco82]

Well that spec is definitely a nice spec. Not thought about having a go at it yourself??? 

 

There are a couple of things I would change but its not a big deal. It would also only be worth it if it was self assembled anyway. Thinder is right though G Skill lower latency memory, ie, 3200 C14 would be better than the Corsair Dominator. I personally think those kits are overpriced.

 

For reference,

MSI motherboards are cheaper, and just as good. (Personal manufacturer choice there) an example...MSI AMD Ryzen MPG X570 GAMING EDGE WIFI AM4 PCIe 4.0 ATX Motherboard LN99486 | SCAN UK

Corsair coolers use an app in Windows to controls the fans. Better done in the bios. Cheaper models are available.

G.Skill memory is better than Corsair and faster thanks to lower latency

That NVME cant be fitted inside the motherboards #1 M2 because of the heatsink. Sabrent would be cheaper and just as good.

That mug wont hold enough coffee or tea!!!!

 

I can however re-assure you that Scan build some quality systems and their customer service as far as I have experienced is second to none. If I am in the market for a new component I go to scan. I check their RTX 3080 page every morning!!!

Edited February 28, 2021 by Bossco82

[Thinder]

6 hours ago, Bossco82 said:

I can however re-assure you that Scan build some quality systems and their customer service as far as I have experienced is second to none. If I am in the market for a new component I go to scan. I check their RTX 3080 page every morning!!!

 

Yeah, they are serious about what they do, but as for every single company offering PCs bundles they have to cut corners, that's why I prefer to build mine myself, the Corsair Kit is good but no match for a CL14 and if one wants to run high settings in VR, especially DCS maps, optimizing the RAM is a must, so I wouldn't have chosen this kit.

 

Then I'd rather run the cheaper 5600X for gaming and use the saved dosh (up to £350+ difference in the UK!) for a low latency 1 rank kit, since DCS which is my priority game uses mostly 1 Core, the 5900X won't make much difference especially if bound with a CL16 kit.

 

Both CPU Memory support are identical, the 5900X has a 64MB vs a 32MB cache but it shares it over 12 Cores instead of 6 with the same bus frequency of 100 MHz 37x, Boost frequency is 4.8 GHz vs 4.6 GHz, not worth £100 more to double the cost from my PoV, I had my 5600X for £ 308.98, but that's a question of personal choice...

 

This system should be fast of course, but if it was mine, I'd check the BIOS settings when I got it (fine tuning cost time and money, some companies just set the RAM to default) and probably upgrade the RAM...

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

Thanks guys - yes heard great things about Scan and they a re a bit cheaper than OCUK too ... re 5900x v 5600x ... I did reason with the extra 200MHz (every one counts I guess!) - funnily enough I was offered the 5800X immediately as it is available, but all idiots like me are jumping on the 5900x bandwagon.

 

Yes, I did once build my system from scratch: an AMD Thunderbird Athlon 1.4GHz system waaay back in 2002. But this new one has a watercooler and I didn't want to F*** it up

[C3PO]

Update: on Thinder's recommendation, have asked to swap out the 5900X for the 5800X

[Thinder]

4 hours ago, C3PO said:

Update: on Thinder's recommendation, have asked to swap out the 5900X for the 5800X

 

I think this kind of saving really only works if you invest it in optimized RAM kits, that's the trade off I chose to make, an extra 6.04% speed in CPU (my own results with my settings) once the RAM bottleneck is removed is worth it but it remains a personal choice made on budget, you can obtain the same gain with a 5950X if you have the money for both CPU and RAM.

 

From where I stand when it comes to upgrades or choices of specific gear, there are different results I'd be looking for: Efficiency, 3600X to 5600X <> 21%. RAM anyting 16 CL two rank to my actual G.SKILL kit <> 6.04% CPU speed. Cost-effectiveness MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX with updated bios, at the price they sell them those day, it's near unbeatable. Cooling Artic Freezer 7X, same thing works well and is a bargain.

 

The most expensive in this list is the RAM but if you look at the results, it is better than many water-cooling solutions and doesn't involved O.C.

 

Players are going to make choices based on one of those criterias, my basic upgrade path goes through the research for the best bound between components so as to remove bottlenecks even before thinking about O.Cing but within a given budget, and next stage is replacing my 1080TI 11GB by a RADEON RX6800, not even an XT, for Cost-effectiveness.

 

The little % I gained then and there will help ironing out the lack of top performance of both CPU and GPU at 4K in VR a little, even so the whole system is not designed for it ultimately, after all I enjoyed playing this way with a 3600X and a 2 X 16 GB two ranks RAM kit.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Thinder

[Bossco82]

Mate fitting an AIO is no harder than an aftermarket air cooler. It's all sealed and pre-done for you. I replaced my Corsair one last week. Took just over an hour max.

 

The extra 200mhz won't give you much. I have a 5600x, to save voltage I lock it to 4.6ghz and undervolt to 1.2v. (I know I can use curve optimised to max single core). DCS using ultra setting at 4k even in Syria never maxes it out.

Lower latency dram however did eliminate a stutter problem.

 

I use to use OcUK too but the last 12 months their prices have gone up.

[C3PO]

Swap confirmed: £90 back and system here by March 11th