Anyone that can compare force feedback with modern joysticks?

[chumpeagle]

Hi all. Maybe this is a bit random but looking for some experiences from others. I have had a Microsoft Sidewinder 2 force feedback joystick for many years and only recently learned that due to patent issues nobody makes FF joysticks anymore. What a shame.

 

In the past I have always played WW2 type sims like IL-2, or older MSFT flight sim versions. The 2020 one doesn't seem to like the Sidewinder joystick so I haven't got that working yet.

 

I've just started playing DCS and I am hooked, it is amazing. I bought a TWCS throttle to complement my Sidewinder and that has helped with all the buttons etc, and also effectively doubles my buttons on the Sidewinder through using a modifier.

 

However, I'm tempted by all the hats and buttons on a Thrustmaster HOTAS (once prices come back to normal again). They look pretty cool.

 

After all that rambling - my question... Do modern joysticks have any kind of dynamic feeling or anything in them e.g. as I pull back more to they get tighter etc or is it all just like a constant spring?  Or do they not actually auto center and you do that yourself? I'm trying to figure out what they will feel like to use compared to my Sidewinder.  Or do they not have any equivalent feeling to them?  Maybe that is actually more realistic with modern fly by wire jets etc anyway so perhaps I should keep my Sidewinder for WW2 planes and something like a Warthog for modern planes. 

 

If anyone has gone from a force feedback joystick to a modern stick like a Warthog I'd love to know what you think.

[speed-of-heat]

AFAIK nobody makes consumer force feedback joysticks... most modern joysticks have quite strong springs in them... so there is resistance but no "bumps" or progressive strain increase... the most useful thing a FF stick can do (TBH) in a modern aircraft is provide feedback of an impending departure , but in sims like DCS there are other visual or auditory clues... I use my Warthog for WW2 and Modern and helo for that matter, and i just use it as a side stick not center ... ymmv   and enjoy whatever answer you come up with... 

 

[chumpeagle]

"Progressive strain" - good term and that's the kind of thing I was trying to say  Thanks for the response.

[MAXsenna]

If you ever start to fly helicopters in DCS, hold on to it. That's where it really shines.
But the FFB effects in other modules are pretty nice as well. I'm gonna mod and rebuild mine, (have to of them, might mate them), with more power, extension and better grip. Then I should be all set.
Cheers!

PS: Received Mikhail's excellent collective the other day. It's just fantastic!

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/222296-sollective-pitch-control-lever/&share_tid=222296&share_fid=74365&share_type=t&link_source=app

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Lange_666]

1 hour ago, chumpeagle said:

If anyone has gone from a force feedback joystick to a modern stick like a Warthog I'd love to know what you think.

 

Yup, back in 2003 when i made the change from a MS Sidewinder FF to a TM Cougar.

Cougar stock gimbals were horrible (imo) and certainly compaired to the smoothness of the SW FF stick.

So i went for a mod to bring back that smoothness.

I struggled a bit with the airplanes during dogfighting because with the FF you could "feel" when an airplane was going to stall, with the Cougar i had to focus on other info for this but after a while i got used to it.

Then last year i made the transition to a TM Warthog. First thing i did was trow out the way to heavy spring, wasn't enough, still way to much friction in the sticks gimbal. Got rid of the entire base and got replaced it with a VIRPIL WarBRD one and mountad the TM stick on that one (with heavier springs to prevent it from leaning over).

For the TM Warthog throttle slew axis, which just SUCKS big time, i used this mod: 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Lange_666

[chumpeagle]

22 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

If you ever start to fly helicopters in DCS, hold on to it. That's where it really shines.
But the FFB effects in other modules are pretty nice as well. I'm gonna mod and rebuild mine, (have to of them, might mate them), with more power, extension and better grip. Then I should be all set.
Cheers!

PS: Received Mikhail's excellent collective the other day. It's just fantastic!

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/222296-sollective-pitch-control-lever/&share_tid=222296&share_fid=74365&share_type=t&link_source=app

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 

I do plan on trying helicopters soon so will bear that in mind, especially with the Apache being announced... Those collective controls look amazing.

[Mr_sukebe]

There are a couple of force feedback units around, eg the Brunner unit.  They’re a lot of dosh and I’ve never tried one, so can’t comment on how well the FF is done.

 

I used to have a mk1 MSFFB joystick.  Disregarding the FFB, I didn’t like the stick.  Very short on buttons, and felt cheap (let’s face it it was, but that also made it amazing value for money).

I now have a TM F18 grip on a 20cm extension and a T50 base.  Amazing tactile feels, plenty of buttons and beautifully smooth and precise.

 

For “feel”, I use a jetseat, which really does impress me, and includes feedback about say when you’re getting into stall conditions.

 

 

[chumpeagle]

10 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

There are a couple of force feedback units around, eg the Brunner unit.  They’re a lot of dosh and I’ve never tried one, so can’t comment on how well the FF is done.

 

I used to have a mk1 MSFFB joystick.  Disregarding the FFB, I didn’t like the stick.  Very short on buttons, and felt cheap (let’s face it it was, but that also made it amazing value for money).

I now have a TM F18 grip on a 20cm extension and a T50 base.  Amazing tactile feels, plenty of buttons and beautifully smooth and precise.

 

For “feel”, I use a jetseat, which really does impress me, and includes feedback about say when you’re getting into stall conditions.

 

 

 

I've not seen Jetseat before so that's a new one!  The Sidewinders do feel a bit cheap (as they are plastic) but also I find very comfortable. It's also lasted me around 20 years so far, so not doing badly. I'm loving all the input and views and I think for now I am going to stick with it (pardon the pun) and maybe if I ever get to a proper set up where my joystick isn't sat on my desk I might look at changing, as the ones like the TM or Virpil ones all look quite big to be sat on a desk.  Unless I see a bargain once crazy prices have ended!  If anything I may add a yoke based setup for MS Flight Sim next . 

[speed-of-heat]

28 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

There are a couple of force feedback units around, eg the Brunner unit.  They’re a lot of dosh and I’ve never tried one, so can’t comment on how well the FF is done.

 

1200 EUR ... yeah that doesnt feel like consumer pricing... that feels more like a divorce