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Taking advantage of an offer to improve Setting Results


Fakum
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From this thread here:

 

I’m taking glide up on his offer to help dial in my setting for better performance. I have struggled with stuttering and seemingly low FPS, spent a lot of time over the years with reading through the hundreds of threads concerning settings, even tried my hand at using Process Lasso. I never really achieved anything favorable. I will give this another try. With my current hardware, I think I should be doing better! I average between 30 – 50 (maybe 60 at times) FPS. The microstuttering drives me crazy, its more apparent when I look out the side of the canopy looking at the ground. All my drivers, including Windows 10 are up to date. Maybe I will get lucky here and someone will spot something I really should try and adjust? Thanks for any help.

 

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Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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I did some tuning a couple of weeks ago, and am fairly happy with how it's running now. The biggest improvement was being able to minimize the shimmering shadows i was having.

 

Problem is, I can't really remember all the stuff I changed. Fortunately, you provided all these screenshots. Not too many differences.

 

NVIDIA:

 

Ambient Occlusion: Performance

Anti-Aliasing - FXAA: On

Anti-Aliasing - Transparency: 8x (supersample)

Max Frame Rate: 90 FPS

Monitor Technolog: ULMB

Texture Filtering - Quality: Performance

 

I bolded frame rate as that sticks out as the main thing I remember changing when things started running better for me. I read someone else's post about how that helped them, and it kinda made sense to me in a way.. depending on how the engine is built, it trying to max out frame rate with no cap could be starving other parts of the engine of resources and dragging the whole down some. Its at 90 as I play on a G2. Maybe try capping yours at 60 (half of your 120hz)?

 

GAME:

 

MSAA: 2x

A few other differences that wouldn't help (high civ traffic, visibility ultra, lens effects dirt, etc)

 

VR:

 

I run a game pixel density of 1.1 and a steamVR resolution of 110%. An old photoshop trick was resizing in 10% increments to minimize aliasing artifacts when scaling. I was having really bad issues with shimmering, and to me it seemed to be anti-aliasing transparency, especially with the shadows. So i was trying everything I could related to anti-aliasing and transparency (thus the 8x in my nvidia settings), including old designer tricks. It seemed to work. Some combo of that and my nvidia changes led to having very little shimmer.

 

9700kf @ 4.2ghz (sustained, all cores.. sometimes i'll go 4.6 or 4.8), rog strix 3090, 32GB


Edited by Monkwolf
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12 hours ago, Fakum said:

I average between 30 – 50 (maybe 60 at times) FPS. The microstuttering drives me crazy, its more apparent when I look out the side of the canopy looking at the ground.

 

That's because stutter directly in front of you happens in the same direction as you move, it's less noticable.

But looking sideways, it's far more noticable because the movement of the terrain goes a lot quicker and the distance covered between stutters is just bigger (as per view).

Do you use TrackIR?

If so, set your settings to keep your FPS above 60 and lock your framerate to 60 (or 30 if you can't manage 60 all the time).

TrackIR has the annoying habitat to go out of sync with your framerate causing stutter if your framerate is not in sync with TrackIR (120, 60 or 30 Hz).

If i don't use TrackIR, it's smooth overall at any decent framerate, the moment TrackIR comes into play it stutters (most noticable on looking sideways) when it drops below the VSync rate (or a division of it, 120/60/30). I already notice when it drops to 58-59 FPS and i look sideways. The stutter isn't big but becomes bigger when the FPS goes lower until it hit the next sweet spot at 30.

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Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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I do use TrackIR, and I completely agree with what you stated about the integers "(or a division of it, 120/60/30)". I dont think that knocking down my DCS settings to achieve a consistent 60 is going in the right direction though. With the hardware I have, I should be seeing consistency over 60 as it is. I think that can be achieved probably primarily thru the correct NVIDIA settings 1st. That is my 1st target in my opinion,, then dial in DCS settings. I just think my current settings need review and comment.

Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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If i don't run DCS "exactly" on the integers of TrackIR when using it, it stutters.

Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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There is a lot(!) of going on in your settings...

I didn't get your hardware specs though....

 

Some suggestions right from the start: (Just note your current settings, and just try them out)

Nvidia Control Panel: Leave everything on default (reset to default) except power management (set to max. performance) and texture filtering (set to max. performance - you will hardly see any difference), turn V-sync off!

Put G-sync option only to Fullscreen and under "Display" show G-sync indicator (that way you are sure, you are in Fullscreen)

 

In game:

- Reduce Water to medium

- Heatblur to low

- MSAA to 2x (!)

- SSAA to 1,5

- Reduce Grass to 1000

- Reduce Trees to 85

- Reduce Preload Radius to 90000

- Anisotropic Filtering to 8

- Terrain Object Shadow to flat (!)

- V-Sync off

- fullscreen enabled

 

optional try : NVCP max FPS cut to increments of 30 (90 for me)

 

Deactivate any Overlays (Nvidia Gamemode, Afterburner, Riva Tuner...), check the settings in trackir....

Do a Reboot.

 

You should barely notice an negative change in optics but a performance gain - the microstutter was gone for me with those settings.

Though - as I stated. I missed your hardware specs.

 

p.s. those settings gave me a smooth experience with above 100 FPS most of the times. That is with 3080 in 4K though.

 

 

 


Edited by Hiob
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Should not be using MSAA and SSAA together on any system. Its one or the other. In fact, as per MW, SSAA was only introduced for people running at lower resolutions (1080 and below)

 

 

15 hours ago, Monkwolf said:

I did some tuning a couple of weeks ago, and am fairly happy with how it's running now. The biggest improvement was being able to minimize the shimmering shadows i was having.

 

Problem is, I can't really remember all the stuff I changed. Fortunately, you provided all these screenshots. Not too many differences.

 

NVIDIA:

 

Ambient Occlusion: Performance

Anti-Aliasing - FXAA: On

Anti-Aliasing - Transparency: 8x (supersample)

Max Frame Rate: 90 FPS

Monitor Technolog: ULMB

Texture Filtering - Quality: Performance

 

I bolded frame rate as that sticks out as the main thing I remember changing when things started running better for me. I read someone else's post about how that helped them, and it kinda made sense to me in a way.. depending on how the engine is built, it trying to max out frame rate with no cap could be starving other parts of the engine of resources and dragging the whole down some. Its at 90 as I play on a G2. Maybe try capping yours at 60 (half of your 120hz)?

 

GAME:

 

MSAA: 2x

A few other differences that wouldn't help (high civ traffic, visibility ultra, lens effects dirt, etc)

 

VR:

 

I run a game pixel density of 1.1 and a steamVR resolution of 110%. An old photoshop trick was resizing in 10% increments to minimize aliasing artifacts when scaling. I was having really bad issues with shimmering, and to me it seemed to be anti-aliasing transparency, especially with the shadows. So i was trying everything I could related to anti-aliasing and transparency (thus the 8x in my nvidia settings), including old designer tricks. It seemed to work. Some combo of that and my nvidia changes led to having very little shimmer.

 

9700kf @ 4.2ghz (sustained, all cores.. sometimes i'll go 4.6 or 4.8), rog strix 3090, 32GB

 

 

Ambient Occlusion isn't even supported in DCS.

 

Most Nvidia CP settings are completely ignored by the DCS differed render engine. FXAA still works, vsync etc. Most of the others do nada.

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15 minutes ago, Canada_Moose said:

Should not be using MSAA and SSAA together on any system. Its one or the other. In fact, as per MW, SSAA was only introduced for people running at lower resolutions (1080 and below)

 

 

Even better - than leaving it off should further improve FPS. I figured (by trial and error) those settings works like a charm but It may be that SSAA doesn't contribute to it.

I will try out tonight!

My way of going with the settings is, try out and judge by myself (biased and subjective as it is) until I stumble over an actual explanation what a certain setting does and why or why not it would have the desired impact. Like your explanation above. So thank you!


Edited by Hiob
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17 hours ago, Fakum said:

I’m taking glide up on his offer to help dial in my setting for better performance.

@Fakum The only thing I would suggest is turning OFF vsync entirely, and setting Antialiasing -transparancy to Multisample in the NCP.  This has to match your choice of AA in DCS.

 

Your settings are almost identical to mine.  I have terrain object shadows OFF now.  That saves some FPS.  At your resolution you can get by with MSAA x2 and that will save FPS. 

 

Your 2080Ti has 11GB of VRAM, correct?  I am guessing you don't have stuttering on Caucasus or PG, but you get it on Syria?  Syria will push our 11GB cards into Shared GPU memory, and this causes all kinds of stuttering for people.


Edited by glide
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4 minutes ago, glide said:

Your 2080Ti has 11GB of VRAM, correct?  I am guessing you don't have stuttering on Caucasus or PG, but you get it on Syria?  Syria will push our 11GB cards into Shared GPU memory, and this causes all kinds of stuttering for people.

Can't confirm. My 3080 only has 10G and no problems in syria (at least none, that weren't also on other maps).

 

Edit: I think we have to differentiate between the kinds of stutter(ing). The (very) occasional standstill for a tenth of a second when something is reloaded/loaded vs. the constant microstuttering when looking around.

The first, yes I have that, but on every map. The latter, after a lot of testing I got rid of it (I think mainly to because I dropped v-sync entirely)


Edited by Hiob
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16 hours ago, Monkwolf said:

NVIDIA:

 

Ambient Occlusion: Performance

Anti-Aliasing - FXAA: On

Anti-Aliasing - Transparency: 8x (supersample)

Max Frame Rate: 90 FPS

Monitor Technolog: ULMB

Texture Filtering - Quality: Performance

As mentioned OC, not supported.

FXAA is post processing AA (ie AFTER DCS has finished rendering) and is easy on FPS, but don't use this with MSAA or SSAA. 

Anti-Aliasing - Transparency: 8x (supersample)  This doesn't make sense because it should match the AA choice in DCS.  Since DCS has 1.5x and 2x, only 2x supersample matches.  This should be either multisample or 2x. 

Max Frame Rate: not sure why you want this at 90fps.  If your system was having trouble maintaining 60 fps for example, you would set this to 58 fps.  That's like saying, I can't quite make 95 fps, so limit me to 90 fps.  Should be OFF.

Texture Filtering just does some presets.   LOD is old and doesn't do anything on your card.  Trilinear optimization only works if you use Anisotropic Filtering in DCS.

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11 minutes ago, Hiob said:

The (very) occasional standstill for a tenth of a second when something is reloaded/loaded

These are likely shaders being recompiled or swapped from shared to dedicated GPU, but I can't confirm.  You can see this behaviour reflected in Task Manager.  Watch for copy activity on the GPU.  They usually coincide with the stutters.

59 minutes ago, Canada_Moose said:

SSAA was only introduced for people running at lower resolutions (1080 and below)

Not so.  SSAA works for any resolution.

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About Gsync, I had a gsync monitor for 1 day before I gave it to my son.  It doesn't make sense to have Gsync on and Vsync off or vice versa.  You are either limiting frames or not limiting frames.  If you are getting consistently over 60fps with your card, you don't need to use sync in 2d. However, it doesn't hurt to use vsync and lock frames down at 60 fps in 2d.  Vsync ON, OFF or FAST are the 3 main choices I see.  I also can't tell if DCS vsync is better than NCP vsync.  So, I would experiment with DCS vsync ON - all NCP Vsync/Gysnc off, DCS vsync OFF - NCP vsync/gsync ON, and DCS vsync OFF and NCP vsync FAST. 

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I appreciate the feedback so far guys, lots for me to decipher here, and I plan on trying to sift though it all right after i get through the following. Let me try and sort out one of the most basic matters right off the bat. TRACKIR,, as Lang_66 has pointed out, and is something that is widely understood,, setting refresh rates of integers (120/60/30) should be a serious consideration. With that being said, and having a monitor with refresh rates of 60/100/120/144 and knowing that I wont be seeing (or needing) solid FPS in DCS over 80 probably, wouldnt it be beneficial for me to lock my rates at 60? And if so, I would set my monitor to 60, but what should I set my DCS AUTO.cfg Max FPS and the NVIDIA MAX FPS too? I see recommendations to set them for 60 or 58? Thats confusing.

Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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49 minutes ago, glide said:

These are likely shaders being recompiled or swapped from shared to dedicated GPU, but I can't confirm.  You can see this behaviour reflected in Task Manager.  Watch for copy activity on the GPU.  They usually coincide with the stutters.

Not so.  SSAA works for any resolution.

Didn't say it wouldn't work on any resolution. I said you shouldn't based on info from ED. Take it or leave it.

 

Also, back in 2018, SSAA was disabled for resolutions above 1080p in an update patch. The option may not even do anything above 1080p even now, im not sure, There was even a video in which Matt Wagner explained that SSAA had been put in for people running at lower resolutions.

 

 

 


Edited by Canada_Moose
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20 minutes ago, Fakum said:

I see recommendations to set them for 60 or 58? Thats confusing.

I have trackir too, but I never do anything with refresh rates there.  Sorry for the confusion.

 

I also don't mess with autoexec.cfg for settings. 

 

Remember, film is 30 fps, so 60 fps is twice as fast as a movie theatre.  They say the human eye can't detect differences after 30fps, so that's why 60 is a safe number.  VR guys need 45 per eye or 90 fps to keep from being seasick.  More than 60 fps doesn't add any value for 2d, so no reason not to enable Vsync and have 60 fps all the time.

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40 minutes ago, glide said:

About Gsync, I had a gsync monitor for 1 day before I gave it to my son.  It doesn't make sense to have Gsync on and Vsync off or vice versa.  You are either limiting frames or not limiting frames.  If you are getting consistently over 60fps with your card, you don't need to use sync in 2d. However, it doesn't hurt to use vsync and lock frames down at 60 fps in 2d.  Vsync ON, OFF or FAST are the 3 main choices I see.  I also can't tell if DCS vsync is better than NCP vsync.  So, I would experiment with DCS vsync ON - all NCP Vsync/Gysnc off, DCS vsync OFF - NCP vsync/gsync ON, and DCS vsync OFF and NCP vsync FAST. 

That is wrong! 

I have a constant framerate above 100 Fps but without both g and vsync I have a lot of screentearing. Either will heal that, but with gsync on, there is not much of an additional use for vsync and it could impact the smoothness of trackir...

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4 minutes ago, glide said:

 

Remember, film is 30 fps, so 60 fps is twice as fast as a movie theatre.  They say the human eye can't detect differences after 30fps, so that's why 60 is a safe number.  VR guys need 45 per eye or 90 fps to keep from being seasick.  More than 60 fps doesn't add any value for 2d, so no reason not to enable Vsync and have 60 fps all the time.

Sorry mate, but this is utter bullshit.

 

First of all, it‘s myth that the human I has a max for fps, second the FPS „per eye“ on VR don‘t add up!

Third, try a fast look around with trackir with 60 Fps and compare it to 120 fps.... (that is if your monitor is fast enough)

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Screen tearing is what happens when a the card drops a frame when it shouldn't.  For example, if you use Low Latency Mode = Ultra, your card will not queue any frames.  However, if a frame drops for some reason you get a tear running across the screen.

Just now, Hiob said:

Sorry mate, but this is utter bullshit.

Google is your friend.

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39 minutes ago, Fakum said:

TRACKIR,, as Lang_666 has pointed out, and is something that is widely understood,, setting refresh rates of integers (120/60/30) should be a serious consideration. With that being said, and having a monitor with refresh rates of 60/100/120/144 and knowing that I wont be seeing (or needing) solid FPS in DCS over 80 probably, wouldnt it be beneficial for me to lock my rates at 60? And if so, I would set my monitor to 60, but what should I set my DCS AUTO.cfg Max FPS and the NVIDIA MAX FPS too? I see recommendations to set them for 60 or 58? Thats confusing.

 

I use 120Hz refresh on my monitor (144Hz capable). At 144Hz the integers (144/72/36) don't coop with TrackIR (120/60/30) and doesn't feel smooth enough.

I set MaxFPS to 60 in NCP (the 58 comes from there i guess and lot's people recommend 59 but both are not entirely smooth when using TrackIR (when TrackIR is not used it doesn't matter). VSync i set to ON in DCS (NCP application controlled).  Smooth ride if FPS stays above 60, not if it goes below it (i tried 30 but when terrain moves by fast, it's not good enough, for MSFS2020 it's fine).

Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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7 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

 

I use 120Hz refresh on my monitor (144Hz capable). At 144Hz the integers (144/72/36) don't coop with TrackIR (120/60/30) and doesn't feel smooth enough.

I set MaxFPS to 60 in NCP (the 58 comes from there i guess and lot's people recommend 59 but both are not entirely smooth when using TrackIR (when TrackIR is not used it doesn't matter). VSync i set to ON in DCS (NCP application controlled).  Smooth ride if FPS stays above 60, not if it goes below it (i tried 30 but when terrain moves by fast, it's not good enough, for MSFS2020 it's fine).

Yeah, there's no guarantees.  My monitor actually goes from 30 to 144 but it's "native" at 60hz, and DCS will ignore any vsync setting if it can't keep up.  And yes, that's where the 58 comes from -- some number just below the max refresh rate of your monitor.  BTW, 60 comes from the old cathode ray tubes and the fact that 60hz is the resonance of power in the US.  Tesla chose 60 for the resonance.  I digress.

 

 

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1 hour ago, glide said:

I have trackir too, but I never do anything with refresh rates there.  Sorry for the confusion.

 

I also don't mess with autoexec.cfg for settings. 

 

Remember, film is 30 fps, so 60 fps is twice as fast as a movie theatre.  They say the human eye can't detect differences after 30fps, so that's why 60 is a safe number.  VR guys need 45 per eye or 90 fps to keep from being seasick.  More than 60 fps doesn't add any value for 2d, so no reason not to enable Vsync and have 60 fps all the time.

 

Games are nothing like movies. Every frame in a movie has motion blur. Thats one of the main reasons that films are shot at that speed. Computer generated frames don't have that luxury. There are many, many articles and papers that explain why movie FPS and game FPS are not comparable. I'm shocked that this conversation is even coming up again in 2021.

 

Here is just one of many:

 

https://paulbakaus.com/tutorials/performance/the-illusion-of-motion/

 

Even try for yourself:

 

https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

 

 

Google is your friend.......😏


Edited by Canada_Moose
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LOL, I havnt got past the TrackIR MAX FPS yet, very confusing,,,,, glide, this is a direct quote from you in the other thread, yet above you state you dont mess with it,, so you can imagine why I may be confused?

 

image.png

 

 

Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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34 minutes ago, Fakum said:

LOL, I havnt got past the TrackIR MAX FPS yet, very confusing,,,,, glide, this is a direct quote from you in the other thread, yet above you state you dont mess with it,, so you can imagine why I may be confused?

 

image.png

 

 

Sorry for that confusion.  That was very "theoretical".  It would make more sense for VR to set Max Frame Rate to 90 and 2D to set it to 60 with vsync off.  Forget about Max Frame Rate, anyway.  With your hardware, this should be OFF. 

 

And turn off all Gsync and Vsync in DCS, NCP and in the monitor control panel if you have a Gysnc monitor. 

 

You will see DisplayPort Compression 1.2 and/or 1.4 in the monitor control panel.  This is required to be ON for the higher refresh rates in the monitor to work, AND you need a DisplayPort cable.  Otherwise, it will probably default to 60hz all the time.  The newer HDMI 2.1 monitors I have no experience with. 

 

At this point, DCS is pumping frames as fast as it can go, and your hardware can keep up. 

 

If you see that screen tearing mentioned, you can turn ON vsync in DCS without changing anything else, and it should sync at the native 60 or 100 hz of the monitor.  If it drops frames with vsync ON, you will see the odd tear go by.  This is the simplest way to test vsync. 

 

Alternatively, leave vsync OFF in DCS, and turn vsync ON  in NCP.  This should behave exactly the same way as using vsync in DCS. 

 

Nvidia recommends Adaptive vsync if you have vsync ON and are still getting tearing.  Haven't tried it.

 

FAST is supposed to try for higher increments of sync but drop frames if it can't.  My experience with FAST is that the highs are higher, but lows are still below 60 fps.

 

Gsync is supposed to flip this around and let the monitor tell the card to sync at 60 or 100 or 122, etc instead of the card detecting the monitor rate and syncing.

 

I hope this helps. 🙂


Edited by glide
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@Fakum In your screenshots of the NCP, you are showing the Global settings tab.  Sorry if this is obvious, but under the Programs Settings tab you will see a dropdown.  Under this dropdown you will find DCS Black Shark.  This is a profile for the game that you should use WHEN you are a pro at this.  Here's the drill: get your NCP settings the way you want them.  Then Restore the global defaults by clicking the Restore button.  Then go into the Program Settings tab, and select DCS Black Shark from the dropdown menu.  Then set up your NCP settings just as you had them in the Global Tab.  This way, you can restore the global defaults anytime you wish, but you won't lose your DCS settings on the Program Settings tab.


Edited by glide
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