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Integrating the highest quality mods like Community A-4 into DCS


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Just tried the new EFM version, and must say that even now it surpasses certain paid modules in quality. This mod is just fantastic.

 

I'm wondering if there is any possibility in the future to include  this into DCS in a way that it becomes MP compatible?

 

Maybe there could be an official freeware module status, where if certain quality standards are met, then that aircraft is integrated into the base DCS install?

 

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Well, I hope they change their minds in the future, becuase this mod is way too good. I'd guess that more than 90% if DCS users won't ever install unofficial mods like that.

 

Real quality freeware like this could also give a boost to general DCS popularity, since compared to this one the Su-25T we have now is not exactly the type of plane that attracts a big crowd.

 

This 2.0 beta release with the EFM is at the first glance on par with official modules, it is kind of a waste to let it remain hidden in the mod section in my opinion. 

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11 minutes ago, HWasp said:

Well, I hope they change their minds in the future ...

 

Highly unlikely ... seems that you fail to see that the developers of the A-4 do this as a hobby, on their own free time .. they are not looking to transform this into a job, as most of them already have fulfilling jobs. 

 

The minute the A-4 gets converted into an official Mod, the users will start to make demands: "I want ADF", "I want to have Guided AG Missiles", etc ... while currently the team, can easily tell those users to take it or leave it, without feeling any guilt about it 🙂

 

11 minutes ago, HWasp said:

I'd guess that more than 90% if DCS users won't ever install unofficial mods like that.

 

Wonder how do you know that figure .. installing this Mod is not harder than installing a livery, nor any different.

 

11 minutes ago, HWasp said:

... it is kind of a waste to let it remain hidden in the mod section in my opinion. 

 

Actually, it isn't hidden ... any informed DCS user has probably seen one of the numerous YT videos that have been made about the A-4.

 

Best regards,

 

Eduardo


Edited by Rudel_chw
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42 minutes ago, Mike_Romeo said:

From the FAQ section of the official community A-4E Skyhawk discord:

 

Screenshot_118.png

 

On the flip side if ED decided that the A-4 should be part of DCS would they turn them down? I don't see either happening to be honest. I don't think ED would ever ask and if they did I expect the A-4 crew would yes

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Not to mention the financial side:

Any modules produced in DCS will need permission from the owners of the property, currently Boeing after mergers.

The chance of this contract being granted for free is very low, and Boeing will also want to add criteria to the modeling such that it properly reflects their aircraft as they want it shown.

With all of this done, your spare time modelers are now needing legal support in obtaining these contracts and agreements, probably also needing to form a single entity for Boeing to deal with rather than separate individuals, and added criteria that will probably only be met if they make this their full time job.

All this requires money to get done, and thus will require this new entity to probably charge for their module.

 

TLDR: Simply impossible with the current producers mindsets, and even if that changes; probably not financially viable. Not to mention Boeing could just deny permission

 

As to ED deciding they want it to be official, same as above. contracts need signed, money needs passed ect

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Also, that Su-25T you are maligning was one of the most popular aircraft at one time - plus despite what many here would have you believe, we've been told several times that the FC modules are more popular than the DCS hi-fidelity ones.

 

The purpose of the Su-25T is to let potential customers try that part of the DCS World sim, as well as the hi-fidelity ones they can sample with the T-Mustang.

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Wow, lots of negativity here...

 

I respect that they are doing this in their free time, I'm simply voicing my subjective opinion, that since their free time hobby product now reached payware quality, it would be nice to have it integrated somehow IF it is possible in the future. Also if certain users would demand features, it could be disregarded just as easily as now, as long as it remains free, I don't see how that is a problem until it somehow breaks the game for other users not using the plane...

 

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1 hour ago, CAPT_Kirkpatrick said:

Not to mention the financial side:

Any modules produced in DCS will need permission from the owners of the property, currently Boeing after mergers.

The chance of this contract being granted for free is very low, and Boeing will also want to add criteria to the modeling such that it properly reflects their aircraft as they want it shown.

With all of this done, your spare time modelers are now needing legal support in obtaining these contracts and agreements, probably also needing to form a single entity for Boeing to deal with rather than separate individuals, and added criteria that will probably only be met if they make this their full time job.

All this requires money to get done, and thus will require this new entity to probably charge for their module.

 

TLDR: Simply impossible with the current producers mindsets, and even if that changes; probably not financially viable. Not to mention Boeing could just deny permission

 

As to ED deciding they want it to be official, same as above. contracts need signed, money needs passed ect

 

Are we certain that all the DCS modules are licenced by the aircraft manufacturers? Did Mikoyan (RSK MiG company) licence the Razbam MiG-19, or the LN MiG-21? 

Does the M2000C we have licence from Dassault? What about all the warbirds? 

 


Edited by HWasp
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1 hour ago, Johnny Dioxin (Brixmis) said:

Also, that Su-25T you are maligning was one of the most popular aircraft at one time - plus despite what many here would have you believe, we've been told several times that the FC modules are more popular than the DCS hi-fidelity ones.

 

The purpose of the Su-25T is to let potential customers try that part of the DCS World sim, as well as the hi-fidelity ones they can sample with the T-Mustang.

 

Where did I maling the poor froggy? I have spent a lot of time in the 25T, it is a great plane, but it is not the one I would show as the first one to a newcomer.

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In a fairly recent interview with ED they did state that they have really been looking into changing up the aircraft that are included with DCS so that they are more appealing to newcomers. In my opinion one of the ideal starter aircraft should be the T-45 Goshawk.

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4 hours ago, HWasp said:

Maybe there could be an official freeware module status, where if certain quality standards are met, then that aircraft is integrated into the base DCS install?

  No, there is zero chance of this happening, because ''freeware mod'' or not, they still require licensing from the manufacturer. DCS is a for profit, commerical operation. There is no loophole where you get to exploit another company's IP and name without having to negotiate with and pay them. Furthermore, whether your ''personal opinion'' that it's as good as paid content, it is still made outside the SDK and would require substantial work to bring it up to full functionality. The developers themselves have expressed they're not interested in doing all of this, which is the first and most important point, tbh. What ''the community'' or ''ED'' want is secondary to what the DEVS THEMSELVES said ''No.'' 

 

  People ask this question frequently and it has been answered more times than I can count, including the A-4's own threads, its own FAQ (quoted here almost immediately) and at least a dozen other wishlist threads. So, no, no, and remember the searchbar is your friend, you're not the first to come up with this idea (as evidenced by it being in the FAQ previously mentioned).

 

wViOIgM.gif&key=fb94d462b6688886f0a6b565

 

 

1 hour ago, HWasp said:

Are we certain that all the DCS modules are licenced by the aircraft manufacturers?

  Yes.

 

Quote

Did Mikoyan (RSK MiG company) licence the Razbam MiG-19, or the LN MiG-21? 

  Afaik, yes, they'd have needed to be licensed in order to use those names in the first place.

 

Quote

Does the M2000C we have licence from Dassault?

  Initially no, that's why it was called a M2000 instead of a Mirage 2000 and didn't use the Dassault name. Since then I believe that's changed and they're now licensed officially.

 

Quote

What about all the warbirds? 

  Yes.

 

  This isn't complicated. You want to use somebody's name on your product? You need their permission!!! You cannot use Star Trek on any ol' thing you want, and neither can you use McDonnel Douglas on any ol' thing you want.

 

  Names and IP. You need the owner's permission. Really... really... REALLY simple. You're not stumbling onto some novel concept nobody before you ever thought of, and minimal effort beforehand would save you asking the same questions 9000 people before you have. The last A-4 thread was only a few weeks ago. A search would turn it up in the first 30 seconds I'm sure, where you'd see THIS EXACT CONVERSATION HAPPENING AGAIN.


Edited by Mars Exulte
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59 minutes ago, Evoman said:

In a fairly recent interview with ED they did state that they have really been looking into changing up the aircraft that are included with DCS so that they are more appealing to newcomers.

  Probably a good idea, since we have all these trainer aircraft collecting dust. Yak-52 or L-39 would be a better choice than the Su-25T or gunless TF-51 (that has never 100% worked). They've also been around for a while and had a chance to pay for themselves. Actually the L-39 is a good choice, older and I'm sure paid for, ideal for training with some simple in house missions, and the Kursant campaign available for continued sales.  Or the F-5, same story.

 

Quote

In my opinion one of the ideal starter aircraft should be the T-45 Goshawk.

  An ideal starter aircraft would be one that does not require several years of development and substantial monetary expenditure for no gain when existing modules are ready to go and suitable for the role.


Edited by Mars Exulte
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Alright, alright, I sincerely apologise to all the dear forum members for creating this thread instead of using the search function first, I'll be very catious, that next time before I post in this very very serious whislist section, I will do at least 3 days of research to be sure it was never mentioned before.

 

Thank you all for your very valuable input, have a nice day. 🤣

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The developers of this mod could do it, like the Chinese Assets Pack developers: A none paid, DCS implemented free for all module.

 

So, it would be multiplayer compatible but a free gift to the community, so they could be stay chilling about user wishes, because they were not customer.

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16 minutes ago, VTJS17_Fire said:

So, it would be multiplayer compatible but a free gift to the community


the A-4 is already multiplayer compatible... and it already is free.

 

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I was refering to the 1st and 2nd post of this thread.

 

The CAP is an official part of DCS by a 3rd part developer, but free. So, I can use and see its units in a self made mission and/or in multiplayer without installing a mod. Just vanilla DCS.

 

And my understanding was, the autor of this thread would like to get this with the A-4 mod.

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2 minutes ago, VTJS17_Fire said:

I was refering to the 1st and 2nd post of this thread.

 

The CAP is an official part of DCS by a 3rd part developer, but free. So, I can use and see its units in a self made mission and/or in multiplayer without installing a mod. Just vanilla DCS.

 

And my understanding was, the autor of this thread would like to get this with the A-4 mod.

 

Yes, this would be a good option.

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A mod as complex as the A-4 would require a lot more maintenance then a few ground units and ships.

Also I'm pretty sure it was Deka's plan all along to develop modules after the Chinese Assets Pack.

 

If the A-4 was integrated into DCS, the dev team would lose the freedom of updating/fixing the skyhawk whenever they want, they'd be tied to the official update schedule.

And in order to do so they'd need to have access to the closed beta and submit their updates/fixes to ED to make sure it's not breaking anything else.

In other words, all the downsides of a payware mod, none of the benefits.

 

I really dont get it. The MP crowd keeps complaining about maps and assets pack dividing the community but when they are offered free, high quality content on a silver plate they just turned it down.

I cant think of any other game where the community is so eager for new content and so anti-mods.


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14 minutes ago, Eight Ball said:

I cant think of any other game where the community is so eager for new content and so anti-mods.

 

Yes, I don't get it either .. nowadays, on DCS installing a User Mod is exactly the same procedure as installing a skin: place a folder inside Saved Games, that's it. But it still seems too hard for some ... the same people that has no problem in learning the intrincacies of an F-18 avionics.

 

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You really don't seem to get it...

Problem is not installing a mod, it is really easy.

 

Problem is: most popular servers are presently reluctant to run a mod, because they want to keep the server easy to join, no special requirements. It is a turnoff for many people. 

 

Also very important: this is a WHISHLIST thread ok? Both ED and the devs can just ignore this, no problem.

5 minutes ago, fox2012 said:

I don't think A4 is high quality, it is too simple in flight model.

We are talking about the new 2.0 beta with the NEW flight model, which is great imo.

I never even tried the current stable 1.4 with the SFM. Not interested in SFM mods.

 

If you did not try the new version, try it.

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3 minutes ago, HWasp said:

Problem is: most popular servers are presently reluctant to run a mod, because they want to keep the server easy to join, no special requirements. It is a turnoff for many people.

 Having the A-4 installed doesn't interfere with you joining servers, but yes, many servers opt not to bother with mods because it requires everyone joining to also have the mod. Not all, though, there are servers that use it, and others that occasionally do so. It's the same with every other game on the net : if a given server doesn't use your pet mod, find one that does. Or start one.

  

3 minutes ago, HWasp said:

Also very important: this is a WHISHLIST thread ok? Both ED and the devs can just ignore this, no problem.

  Yep, that's true, and I'm sure they are since it's such a well worn topic and answered in the mod's FAQ, and the developer of it has explained at length before why they don't want to incorporate it into DCS proper. It's a wishlist yes, but that doesn't mean only people who support it are allowed to post on it.

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18 minutes ago, fox2012 said:

I don't think A4 is high quality, it is too simple in flight model.

 

I bet you have only flown v1.4

 

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