R-73 vs A-10C damage

[Cmptohocah]

I was not really sure where to post this one as it's a combo of FF module, FC3 and DCS World. 

 

Why does it take 2 R-73s to take down an A-10C? It happens at any aspect consistently, so it's definitely a uniform damage model.

 

[Shadow KT]

Because it doesn't:

https://streamable.com/71lf6q

We got enough issues in DCS, no need to troll. 

Plenty of aircraft have survived missile hits in real life, due to some reason or another, especially the A-10. It has survived a SA-6 hit in real life. I am sure with the right circumstances, it can survive a hit

Not to mention the damage that a non lethal hit could do.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Shadow KT

[Cmptohocah]

4 hours ago, Shadow KT said:

Because it doesn't:

https://streamable.com/71lf6q

We got enough issues in DCS, no need to troll. 

Plenty of aircraft have survived missile hits in real life, due to some reason or another, especially the A-10. It has survived a SA-6 hit in real life. I am sure with the right circumstances, it can survive a hit

Not to mention the damage that a non lethal hit could do.

 

No trolling here. I am not talking about real life, but DCS exclusively. It does happen and I can provide videos of course.
What was the A-10 version in your video? Why does your R-73 not produce any smoke?

Edited February 20, 2021 by Cmptohocah

[Shadow KT]

The new A-10C (II). 

Because I was zoomed in and the most outboard left side missile was shot, which immediately starts turning left getting out of my POV. By the time the A-10 is hit, the motor is not burning anymore.

Did 5 more runs, zoomed out so you can see the missile, still died with one hit.

A-10R73.trk

Here is a track chasing the A-10 in a turn, missile smoke visible, still one hit.

Tried with an A-10A as well and when it is flying in a straight line, firing from its 6... still died first shot

Edited February 20, 2021 by Shadow KT

[Cmptohocah]

Ok I did some testing and it appears that in SP the A-10C does indeed go down after an R-73 hit.

However, in MP it does not. I will provide a TacView file as soon as dig one up.

[BBCRF]

On 20.02.2021 at 13:09, Shadow KT said:

Потому что это не так:

https://streamable.com/71lf6q

У нас достаточно проблем с DCS, не нужно троллить. 

Многие самолеты пережили ракетные попадания в реальной жизни по тем или иным причинам, особенно А-10. Он пережил попадание SA-6 в реальной жизни. Я уверен, что при правильных обстоятельствах он может пережить удар,

не говоря уже о повреждении, которое может нанести несмертельный удар.

 

Р-73 переживет может только какой нибудь Бобер или транспортник

[Shadow KT]

1 hour ago, Cmptohocah said:

Ok I did some testing and it appears that in SP the A-10C does indeed go down after an R-73 hit.

However, in MP it does not. I will provide a TacView file as soon as dig one up.

 

No point, damage model is the same, if even more detailed for clients. You might wanna look into your connection. Or the angles you shoot at the, or you just were unlucky. Can the A-10 survive a shot... sure it happens, but it is not a rule. One of my last kills was with a 73 on an A-10 in MP and it was one shot.

 

1 hour ago, BBCRF said:

Р-73 переживет может только какой нибудь Бобер или транспортник

"Only a bomber or a transport plane can survive a R-73" is what this fella has said. 

Anyway, nothing more to discuss.

[Cmptohocah]

29 minutes ago, Shadow KT said:

 

No point, damage model is the same, if even more detailed for clients. You might wanna look into your connection. Or the angles you shoot at the, or you just were unlucky. Can the A-10 survive a shot... sure it happens, but it is not a rule. One of my last kills was with a 73 on an A-10 in MP and it was one shot.

 

I am not sure if it's the damage model or the connection, but the two last A-10C I have hit with R-73 in MP, were both visibly damaged and leaking hydraulics and/or fuel, but kept flying. One shot was 8 o'clock co-alt and the other almost 90 deg from above. 

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

Sounds like desync

[Cmptohocah]

57 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

Sounds like desync

What does desync actually mean? Heard it a lot, but dunno what it is.

[Chizh]

9 часов назад, Cmptohocah сказал:

Ok I did some testing and it appears that in SP the A-10C does indeed go down after an R-73 hit.

However, in MP it does not. I will provide a TacView file as soon as dig one up.

The damage model in SP and MP does not differ.

[Dragon1-1]

10 minutes ago, Cmptohocah said:

What does desync actually mean? Heard it a lot, but dunno what it is.

Basically, it's when server and client have different ideas about what's going on in the sim, due to connection latency, bugs in the netcode or any other factor. This typically results in some very weird things happening. In DCS, the damage system often falls prey to this, occasionally resulting in a plane that appears to be blown to pieces, but as far as the physics and FM are concerned, is still completely undamaged.

 

This is likely what you're seeing. I have no idea why it'd happen with such consistency, but then, I'm no netcode wizard.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Dragon1-1

[Cmptohocah]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Basically, it's when server and client have different ideas about what's going on in the sim, due to connection latency, bugs in the netcode or any other factor. This typically results in some very weird things happening. In DCS, the damage system often falls prey to this, occasionally resulting in a plane that appears to be blown to pieces, but as far as the physics and FM are concerned, is still completely undamaged.

 

This is likely what you're seeing. I have no idea why it'd happen with such consistency, but then, I'm no netcode wizard.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

Not only that, but also my wing man saw the same thing, so I am guessing that the issue was on the A-10C's side.

[Shadow KT]

4 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

What does desync actually mean? Heard it a lot, but dunno what it is.

 

Look at this way ... Let's say, for the sake of an example... on your screen, your missile hits dead on, but on the server side, due to some connection issue or network code or whatever the reason is.... the missile explodes 50meters away. 

Now if your missile hits dead on, the explosion will cause its full damage, but if the missile explodes 50m away, it will only cause a fraction of its damage, enough to damage, but not destroy.

Desynchronization... difference between what you see, what the server see, what the person you shoot sees and what actually happens.

I want to underline that, I am not saying this is what happened...  without any evidence anyone who says otherwise is just guessing. There are too many factors at play. This is just one thing that might have happened. To be honest, I lean more towards that the A-10 was just able to tank the missile, which is also a plausible thing and you just got unlucky.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Shadow KT

[dundun92]

21 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

What does desync actually mean? Heard it a lot, but dunno what it is.

A quick explanation of the topic I made for my sqn:

Quote

DCS’s netcode has several specific quirks that affect missile employment and defense. To sum it up, all important calculations are done on the side of the launching aircraft, and what the launching aircraft sees happen is all that matters. In addition, only two events are synced between clients: the missile launch, and missile impact. All other events (missile lofting, trajectory, etc) are NOT synced, but instead locally re-calculated by all the clients. This means that the missile you see on your screen is NOT synced with the shooters, except for the launch and impact. What this means is that what you see the missile do on your screen is NOT guaranteed to be the same as what the shooter sees (and his is what counts, not yours!). The longer the missile is in the air, the more errors will cumulatively build up (this means that missiles often launched from long ranges such as the AIM-54 are especially prone to desync). Certain maneuvers, such as notching, and high ping expedite this.
As an example: often, you will see missiles fly right through you, and yet seemingly not proxy fuze; this is because from the shooter PoV, the missile in fact did not pass within proxy fuze range; it merely appeared to from your PoV because of the desync. Another common example is missiles that you thought you notched blowing you up from many miles away. This, again, is because from the shooter PoV you didn't notch at the correct angle; it merely seemed that way to you because of desync. Understanding this allows you to realize why many shots that you seemed to evade you actually didn't, and vice versa.

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by dundun92

[Cmptohocah]

4 hours ago, dundun92 said:

A quick explanation of the topic I made for my sqn:

 

 

Oh wow,
I wish I had know this earlier. Thanks for the explanation @dundun92.
This basically means that DCS is next to completely useless in MP. Thanks once again.

[Dragon1-1]

Every MP game has some sort of issues with desync. In twitchy FPSes, you often get people jockeying for higher bandwidth and less latency, in order to avoid situations where you fire a gun at a target that, as far as the server is concerned, is no longer there. As long as there are connection speed limits and non-zero latency, desync will happen somewhere. 

[dundun92]

12 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

This basically means that DCS is next to completely useless in MP.

I wouldnt quite say useless, but it is a major problem. It causes issues, for example, with HOBS missile shots not syncing between clients (HOBS shots fly straight off the rail for server/defender, but guide perfectly from client). Or with usage of the PH/ACT switch in the F-14 causing AIM-54s to desync. Its generally just a poor netcode. And to note, its not like even, say, a quarter of missile shots desync. Id say less than 5-10%. But considering how many missiles you may fire/defend in a single sortie, you can quickly see how this becomes problematic.

 

8 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Every MP game has some sort of issues with desync. In twitchy FPSes, you often get people jockeying for higher bandwidth and less latency, in order to avoid situations where you fire a gun at a target that, as far as the server is concerned, is no longer there. As long as there are connection speed limits and non-zero latency, desync will happen somewhere. 

Yea, but the shooter-side event calculations + lack of sync makes this far worse than it needs to be.

[GGTharos]

It's just the lack of sync.   You might not want the server doing all of this as it would put burden on it and thus hosting on your own machine would be more difficult - ie. it would require higher specs.  A reasonable sync algorithm would make things work much better instantly.

 

The reason aircraft take 'more missiles' to go down is likely due desync causing the calculated explosion distance to be higher higher than it is in SP.  This results in less damage being dealt.