[DCS ISSUE] F14 RWR

[Coxy_99]

When launching aircraft fires on F-14, F-14 rwr gives a warning before the missile even goes active. Needs checking also. So your getting a warning once the missile is off bandits aircraft.

Edited March 1, 2021 by IronMike

[Naquaii]

The RWR does not decide this on it's own, it looks for messages from the launching aircrafts code in regards to radar emissions so if this is the case it's a bug in the launching aircraft or the missiles itself. Unfortunately not much we can do on our side.

[Coxy_99]

Ok, Will investigate further and report back, But thats are findings bandit launches active F-14 rwr gives missile warning even tho that active from bandit is not active.

[dundun92]

What kind of missile, AMRAAMs?

[Coxy_99]

120 yea soon as its off the rail F-14 rwr tells you, Which means its bugged because F-14 rwr should tell you once the missile goes active. Definitely a bug, Basically i know when the target has launched on me. 

[Naquaii]

Yeah, not arguing that it is a bug but the thing is that it's not the rwr in the F-14 that decides to warn you about the missile, it only does it if it is told by the radar or missile in the other aircraft that it has gone active. So the bug is quite unlikely to be on the F-14 side.

[Coxy_99]

Understand dude, ERM i wonder if to link this thread in the ED bug section or maybe get it passed on for testing, This is in MP.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Has this always been the case ? 

[Skysurfer]

On 2/19/2021 at 6:17 PM, Coxy_99 said:

When launching aircraft fires on F-14, F-14 rwr gives a warning before the missile even goes active. Needs checking also. So your getting a warning once the missile is off bandits aircraft.

 

 

Do you have a tacview or video example showing this? In all the years flying the Tomcat I have never had a TWS launched amraam give me a launch warning before it went active. Or even another AIM54. If the guy launches at you in STT you'll get warning straight away, anyway. So there are quite a lot of variables in play here as you can see and being a bit more specific might help.

[Coxy_99]

On 3/1/2021 at 2:10 PM, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Has this always been the case ? 

 

No, You do get collateral warning from SAM sites like a hawk etc.

 

On 3/1/2021 at 2:35 PM, Skysurfer said:

 

Do you have a tacview or video example showing this? In all the years flying the Tomcat I have never had a TWS launched amraam give me a launch warning before it went active. Or even another AIM54. If the guy launches at you in STT you'll get warning straight away, anyway. So there are quite a lot of variables in play here as you can see and being a bit more specific might help.

 

Nope no tacview all uninstalled maybe i can find one. Its deffo giving a warning from the rail if an active is fired in TWS, Its not a STT lock, Soon as i get a warning i know i have been shot at.

[Skysurfer]

Can you tell us which type is launching at you? And what missile?

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

On 2/19/2021 at 8:57 PM, Coxy_99 said:

120 yea soon as its off the rail F-14 rwr tells you, Which means its bugged because F-14 rwr should tell you once the missile goes active. Definitely a bug, Basically i know when the target has launched on me. 

So just to make it clear so i get it. 

The F14 RWR tells you exactly when a missile is launched even when the missile is not active yet ? 

And if so, how's this ED's fault if the F14 is the only aircraft that has this uhm ... bug. ?

Edited March 7, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Coxy_99]

Yes f14 rwr tells you when a missile is launched, uhm its a bug. Doubt me all you like gives me the upper hand easy test get a cool bluefor pilot to lob a 120 at you in tws and your cool f14 buddy in an f14 he will get a warning from the f18 once the missile leaves the f18 or whatever active is fired in TWS get the DCS police to test it they are experts haha

Edited March 7, 2021 by Coxy_99

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

How does this only now come to daylight ??? 
I'm so confused 

It does explain a whole lot of tacviews where i actually thought the enemy had real time tacview on another screen or something 

>_< 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

How come only the F14 has this bug if it's on ED's end ? 
I really do hope Heatblur will take an extra look because this is quite a major problem. (for all the other planes that is lol)

p.s: Could you also test if there is a significant delay between phoenix go active and the other plane getting an RWR warning ? 
Also i understood that phoenix doesn't go active without a signal from plane, but it seems this is not the case ? 
@Coxy_99
@Naquaii
 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Naquaii]

Like I've said repeatedly, the RWR in an aircraft in DCS looks for messages from a radar or missile that tells it what is emitting. There is no way it can tell you that there is an incoming missile unless DCS is telling the F-14 that there is an incoming missile and that has to come from the missile itself.

 

The RWR just can't invent that on it's own, it's not looking for the missile, it's looking for the message from DCS that it should show the missile on the RWR. If this is a bug it can't be on the F-14 RWR side.

[Coxy_99]

6 hours ago, Naquaii said:

Like I've said repeatedly, the RWR in an aircraft in DCS looks for messages from a radar or missile that tells it what is emitting. There is no way it can tell you that there is an incoming missile unless DCS is telling the F-14 that there is an incoming missile and that has to come from the missile itself.

 

The RWR just can't invent that on it's own, it's not looking for the missile, it's looking for the message from DCS that it should show the missile on the RWR. If this is a bug it can't be on the F-14 RWR side.

 

As far as i know its 120s giving the warning leaving the rail, Even tho the 120 is not active or pitbull This is same for f16 and f18.

[dundun92]

14 minutes ago, Coxy_99 said:

This is same for f16 and f18

F-16/18 do NOT do this anymore, in STT or TWS they give no warning until active

[Coxy_99]

Ok they dont i dont care gives me the advantage lol crack on with this bug.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

@dundun92Since when and how long has this bug. been present ?

Edited March 13, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[dundun92]

On 3/13/2021 at 8:49 AM, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

@dundun92Since when and how long has this bug. been present ?

 

for the F-14? IDK, i dont fly it much in PvP. But id assume since release. For the F-16/18, it was changed a few months ago, and prior to that gave launch warnings since ive played DCS and from what I can tell from as long as DCS has been around for the FC3 jets.

Note that ARH launch warnings are not absolutely unrealistic; the datalink signal used to guide the ARH in midcourse can be picked up by RWRs; the question is whether specific RWRs are programmed to do this, and thats simply not something we are going to know. There are good reasons to defend either choice. So neither giving or not giving a warning is "realistic" or "unrealistic" per se; both are possibilities. Personally, id lean on STT giving launch warnings (not TWS), but again this is honestly going into the classified realm of tactics and whether the false alarm possibility is worth it.

Edited March 20, 2021 by dundun92

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

So as it stands now, the F14 RWR immidiately gives a launch warning when a missile is fired in TWS by another plane ? 

[Quid]

8 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

So as it stands now, the F14 RWR immidiately gives a launch warning when a missile is fired in TWS by another plane ? 

I don't think so - I've been friendly-fired enough times, to include by my fellow pilots in the same Discord that it seems to work correctly (i.e. no warning until the missile is active).  In one instance, the exchange went something like this:

 

[While turning with a bandit in the Tomcat, one of our other guys in a Hornet approaching]

Hornet Pilot: "Okay, I foxed on that bandit."

Me: "Wait, were you in TWS?"

HP: "Yeah."

Me: "Okay, this might go bad."

HP: "Are you next to him?"

Me: "Yup."

HP: "Uh-oh."

About 10 seconds later:

[Flashing "M" and warning tone as the missile goes active]

Me: "Yup, it's on me."

HP: "Sorry, man."

Splash on me.

 

So, the missile was already off the rail and traveling, then went active on me, and I confirmed the Hornet launched in TWS.  I did NOT have a warning when he called his shot.  BUT!  I haven't tested it properly; maybe I was in the RWR's blind spot, maybe there was server lag (unlikely due to how long between fox and warning), etc.  I had another instance last week where something similar happened - I had a "16" on RWR while turning with a bandit (this was a public server), the bandit exploded, then I had the "M" pop up with no prior warning and got to mark up another ejection due to friendly fire while the Viper driver got kicked for being the perpetrator.  I can't confirm he fired in TWS, however, so it's just anecdotal.  If I get time, I'll see if I can test it with my group.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Maybe it only gives an RWR warning when fired in STT then. 
Thanks for the explanation dude. :thumb_up: 

[The_Tau]

Never seen this bug, in PvP where I mostly fight F-16s I only get warning when missile goes active.