New Build, bad FPS HELP PLEASE!

[Mav161]

I have just put a new build together and I am not getting that much better performance in DCS. I think it may be the fact that I am using a TV instead of a gaming monitor. With the new build I am averaging 54 FPS and the old build was averaging 48 FPS. Here are my new and old Specs and the DCS settings used on both. Please  HELP!

 

New PC:

CPU: Ryzen 7 3700X

Motherboard: ASUS AM4 TUF Gaming X570-Plus (Wi-Fi) ATX with PCIe 4.0

GPU: ASUS AMD Radeon RX 5700 Overclocked 8G GDDR6 Dual Fan EVO Edition

DCS Drive: SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen3. X4, NVMe 1.3

OS Drive: SAMSUNG 950 PRO M.2 2280 256GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4

Memory: Crucial 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2133

Monitor: Samsung Electronics UN40M5300A 40-Inch Class 1080P Smart LED HD TV 60hz

 

Old PC:

CPU: AMD FX 8350

Motherboard: ASUS M5A88-v EVO

GPU: ASUS AMD Radeon RX 5700 Overclocked 8G GDDR6 Dual Fan EVO Edition

OS and DCS Drive: SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 250GB SATA III V-NAND 3-bit

Memory: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333

Monitor: Samsung Electronics UN40M5300A 40-Inch Class 1080P Smart LED HD TV 60hz

 

With the old PC I was averaging around 48 FPS with the following settings in DCS:

 

DCS Graphics settings:

Textures:                                       MEDIUM

Terrain Textures:                          LOW

Civ. Traffic:                                   LOW

Water:                                           LOW

Visible Range:                              MEDIUM

Heat Blur:                                     LOW

Shadows:                                     FLAT ONLY

Resolution:                                  1920X1080

Aspect Ratio:                              1.777777777 something

Monitors:                                     1 SCREEN

Res. of Cockpit Display:             1024             

MSAA:                                          OFF

Depth of Field:                            OFF

Lens Effects:                              DIRT

Motion Blur:                                OFF

SSAA:                                          x1.5

SSLR:                                          OFF

 

Clutter/Grass                              25%

Trees Visiblility:                          50%

Preload Radius:                         100%    No gains with lesser settings

Chimney Smoke Den:                 1

Gamma:                                     1.5

Anisotropic Flitering:                2X

Terrain Shadows:                     OFF

Cockpit Global Illumination:    OFF

Rain Droplets:                           ON

VSYNC:                                     ON   (If Vsync is turned off screen tearing is bad)

Full Screen                                ON

 

RYZEN BUILD                                                                        FX BUILD

 AVG FPS: 54                                                                      AVG FPS: 48                                                         

 

Please HELP!

 

 

 

Thank you in advance!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bossco82]

Hi I'm sure we can help you out mate. Straight up it's not your TV.

First off with your Radeon 5700, it won't give you 60fps with SSAA. Turn it off and use MSAAx2. My old 5700xt couldn't handle SSAA @ 60fps. For the next part turn Fullscreen to OFF.

If you dont already have them install GPUZ and Ryzen Master so you can check your system usages for your cpu and gpu.

Open both, leave them in the background. Then fire up DCS and load up a mission. If you have the FA-18 I use the Valley Run mission as a benchmark for performance. You can use any though.

Fly around for 5 mins at a low altitude as that is more demanding. Then pause and ALT+TAB out and check GPUZ and Ryzen Master too see if your gpu or cpu are being maxed out.

Finally what is the exact model number of your DDR4?

If you can gather that info it should help anyone on here help you further.

[InfinityWingman]

You might try some of the tips at https://vr4dcs.com/

 

It's geared towards VR, but most of the performance tweaks apply to both. I switch between VR and TrackIR triple monitor. I have a similar setup, but with a 1080ti and get good 40fps average in VR and 90+ on 3 screen with most DCS settings maxed out (no SSAA and I use MSAAx2). I can get getter fps if I turn down some things. It's about finding the sweet spot. It's a lot of small improvements that add up to give you 10-20 more smooth fps or more. For me, I push it to the edge. I'm ok with a little stutter now and then in complex scenes, but you may think otherwise.

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by InfinityWingman

[Mav161]

I believe it is CT4K8G4DFS8213. It is Quad channel

[Mav161]

InfinityWingman

i Dont mind a little stutter especially with a complex scene. I have a stutter all the time. every two seconds the terrain has will stutter

[Thinder]

3 hours ago, Mav161 said:

I believe it is CT4K8G4DFS8213. It is Quad channel

 

The number of channels means absolutely nothing apart for the fact that it can be used on motherboard using 2 or more channels, what matters is the number of ranks per stick, your RAM kit is limited interms of efficiency, it was designed for cheap operation in replacement of DDR3, not performances.

 

You're using a Ryzen, if you want to improve in performances, you need to give it better RAM, best for Ryzen are 4 X 8GB B.Die, CL14 single rank, 3200MHz kits, you can find them from G.SKILL and Corsair, that would solve the RAM-to-CPU bottleneck, Ryzen works better with lower latency than higher frequency.

 

Then what is obvious here is the limitation of your GPU...

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Thinder

[Svsmokey]

I think at 1080p and 60hz , the 5700 should do the job well .  But i fully agree regarding the ram . Is there an AMD motherboard bios setting a`la "xmp" that must be addressed for stated clocks ?

[BitMaster]

The RAM is not what you want for gaming on a Ryzen, as stated before.

 

Low latency paired with adequate MHz, like CL14-3200 or CL16-3600 are 2 good choices.

 

Buy them at a place where you can return them if they dont run as intended.

Edited February 19, 2021 by BitMaster

[Mav161]

Thinder

 

Would a 2x16 gb work as well as 4x8gb?

Svsmokey

 

I will have to look in the bios tonight when I get home and let you know

[Bossco82]

Thinders right about the dram.

If your in the UK go to Amazon, Scan Overclockers, Ebuyer or Novatech. Buy a Corsair 3200mhz C16 AMD Optimised kit. Don't get the one XMP Certified, that for Intel and won't be stable at 3200 XMP. It's up to you 4x16gb will be better for Ryzen in the long run. However at 1080p 60fps it won't matter right now. So if 2x16gb is cheaper you'll be fine. 

You only see those differences at 4k resolution or using VR.

The sets are easy to find on eBay used too.

Search Corsair 3200 C16 32gb AMD.

 

If you are after absolute best performance then you will have to get a G Skill C14 kit but those are between 230-250 pounds.

 

The dram and using MSAAx2 instead of SSAA, should improve your DCS experience. You may might find you can increase your texture settings too. 

[Thinder]

9 hours ago, Mav161 said:

Thinder

 

Would a 2x16 gb work as well as 4x8gb?

Svsmokey

 

I will have to look in the bios tonight when I get home and let you know

 

In my experience it will not fully get rid of the Ram-to-CPU bottleneck but it will of course work, until the CPU starts to throttle down under load as was the case with mine before I changed my RAM, meaning your PC limits will be lower than with a better RAM-to-CPU bound.

 

I replaced my Crucial BALLISTIC GAMING MEMRORY 32GB DDR4-3200 CL16 2X 16GB 2 ranks by a 4 X 8 GB of the same speed but what made the difference is the nature of the RAM itself, B.Die, 1 rank, CL14 4 X 8 3200 MHz will work best with a Ryzen, always did.

 

The main reason is the way the Ryzen CPU controllers handles higher frequencies, they are recommanded at up to 3200 MHz by AMD for a good reason, but of course you always can stick faster RAM on those slots if you wish or O.C your RAM, I tried 3600GHz with the Crucial kit but in fact it was slightly slower, it didn't work.

 

The higher the frequency, the more difficult it becomes for the controller to handle the RAM, B.Die is the type of chips that gives the best result with the Ryzen, those CPUs are optimized for lower latency so CL14 works better and a single rank 4 X kit take advantage of rank interleaving, the combination of those specs makes the difference in performances.

 

Your solution would work but if you really want to get rid of the RAM bootleneck you'll need one of those kits, either Corsair or G.SKILL, there is a premium to pay in comparison with a non-optimized RAM kit but I personally gained 6.04% at 4K in CPU only, and all buses works better, even the GPU is slightly faster since CPU and GPU shares the VRAM bus even without using Smart Access Memory.

 

It's something the previous generation of Ryzen like your Ryzen 7 3700X does very well and with experience, people started to figure out how to get the most of those CPU, the Zen 3 architecture goes even further when it comes to use of lower latency and those kits just work wonder with them too.

 

See what you can or want to afford and chose the kit that suits your need best.

B-Die Finder

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Thinder

[Thinder]

Something I forgot to mention, but I have given it a  lot of attention when upgrading my case, is the cooling, since all processors are thermally limited (CPU and GPU), it is important to maintain a cool temperature at full load.

 

And apparently you don't need water cooling and a lot of dosh to do just that.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Thinder

[Bossco82]

I saw that video this morning too. Made me think that the headache of installing a 240 AIO simply isnt worth it. Shame hes caught COVID.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Bossco82

[Thinder]

54 minutes ago, Bossco82 said:

I saw that video this morning too. Made me think that the headache of installing a 240 AIO simply isnt worth it. Shame hes caught COVID.

 

 

Same here, I installed an Artic Freezer 7X of the same configuration, it is feed by a high pressure Octua straight in front of it and right behind it on the same line there is another Octua for the exhaust, my cooling is quiet good even at full load but I recon, this one is even better than the Artic for the same price range...

[Bossco82]

Yeah I looked at my Corsair H100i after watching this and thought "do I really need you"? Especially as the Corsair Link software can be a resource hog. Plus there is the added peace of mind not worry about a pump going or a pipe leaking. Especially as the pipe run is over my 2080ti!!!

[Thinder]

1 hour ago, Bossco82 said:

Yeah I looked at my Corsair H100i after watching this and thought "do I really need you"? Especially as the Corsair Link software can be a resource hog. Plus there is the added peace of mind not worry about a pump going or a pipe leaking. Especially as the pipe run is over my 2080ti!!!

 

LOL! I agree, electricity and water doesn't make a good mix, some people love their water cooling, I would personally never consider it even if it game me an extra 10% FPS, plus when you see the performances of good air-coolers, there is less and less reasons for using water-cooling.

 

Ps your avatar is Colonel Robin Olds, right?

Edited February 21, 2021 by Thinder

[Bossco82]

Yeah, I am a big fan of the Vietnam era of air combat and moustaches!

 

I use to be a fan of water cooling, as I always have a windowed case. However I have looked at it more and more recently wondering if its needed practically at all anymore. Is it now just aesthetic? I think I still have a hangover from the days of pushing a 2700k Sandybridge to 5.2ghz. I think were seeing the last of those days since Ryzen matured. With precision boost for CPU's and GPU boost for the graphics is overclocking becoming a thing of the past. I look at my own system and everything is undervolted now. My 5600x does not need to go past 4.6ghz for me so I lock it to 1.2v. My 2080ti never hits 100% at 1950mhz so its locked at .950mv. How times have changed, mind you I have been putting my own systems together since 1998.

 

I apologise for the thread hijack, this thread has gone a bit off coarse!

[Thinder]

Right... So you're a vet.

 

I've seen Germans F-4 flying low level in Germany when I worked there around NATO airbases, quiet a piece of an aircraft, their last F-104 too, I've been playing flight sims since Jane's IAF, I admit that my favourite aircraft for fighting Migs was the F-8 in Strike Fighter II.

 

I would create a mission with attack of an airfield with SEAD, B52, F-105 and basically fly with unlimited fuel and gun amo against tons of Mig-17 and 21, I learned to do high yoyo, I love the F-8, I did find the F-4 more chalenging to fly against the Migs...

 

Anyway, I'll probably will have to wait an extra month to return to DCS because I really can't hack it with hat switches anymore since I tasted VR, so I'll get a second hand G1 and wait until there is something that really is worth spending money on it, GPU or VR headwset, whatever is available first.

[Bossco82]

No mate I'm not a vet, just fascinated with air combat in the 20th century. When I was growing up a man two doors down from me was a Lancaster and Mosquito pilot and navigator in WW2. My interest started from that. Vietnam is just a particular interest of mine. Robin Olds story is one of many that stand out and grab my interest.

 

I did try to join the RAF at 19 but I have Asperger's and Dyslexia so got turned down.

 

It's only a suggestion mate but you could try the delanclip to get you by until you get the VR you want. Cheaper than Track IR. Much better than using POV buttons.

[Mav161]

Thank you everyone for the help. I will be upgrading the RAM! I did find a work around for the time being that seems to work pretty well. In bios I changed the mem frq. to 2133Mhz and changed the FCLK to 1900Mhz. That increased the speed of everything! I also spent all day yesterday going through every graphic setting in radeon and in DCS. 12 hoursI am happy to say that I was able to get 137 FPS out of my RX5700 at 1920x1080 with a 13ms response time out of my samsung smart tv with SSAA at 1.5 and MSAA at X2. There still is a stutter becasue the tv is bottlenecking. ordered a ultra wide 2k monitor that is 144hz with a 4ms response time. so that should take care of that. I have not had any cooling issues. 54c is the highest my cpu temp has gotten under a full load. 

[Bossco82]

Mav161,

Just so your aware of two things mate.

 

With Ryzen your dram speed should be 2x what your FLCK speed is. For example dram is 3200mhz FLCK is 1600mhz.

 

Your new screen. I use a cheap 50" Hisense 4k TV as a monitor at 60hz or 60fps. It is limited to 60hz by the TV because it cannot refresh the image on the screen any faster. It's not a bottleneck as 60hz is enough for smooth gameplay in a simulator. I get no stutter at all.

Your new screen "might" give you more problems as you have doubled your resolution to 2k from 1k, or 1080p. It's refresh rate is now 144hz. Your PC is now going to have to work much harder unless the new screen supports freesync. If it supports freesync then you should be fine as that means you can use a "variable refresh rate" instead of a fixed one. 

 

I hope you get it to perform the way you want mate.

[Mav161]

Bossco82,

 

It has freesync and it is running great! Thank you for the dram info. FLCK at 1900mhz has increased my dram speeds dramatically. Still going to get some better dram in the near future as well as a new GPU when they are not sold out!

[Aluminum Donkey]

On 2/21/2021 at 9:25 AM, Bossco82 said:

I did try to join the RAF at 19 but I have Asperger's and Dyslexia so got turned down.

 

Shit man, with BOTH of those disorders you'd be the most kickass pilot in the whole country!

 

AD

[Bossco82]

I did a photography and history degree while applying in 2002. I was aiming at working in some form of intelligence or analysis of reconnaissance. Sadly is was not meant to be so I fell back on how I paid for my degree and became a central heating engineer. I now dabble in computers. 

I've been told it would have been a different story nowadays.