Torn... Reverb G2 or Valve Index

[Sr.]

Ok, I'm tired of reading reviews. And since I've no possible way of comparing in person, I'm hoping any current G2 owners who've owned Valve index can weigh in.

 

Is the G2 resolution increase worth it over the FOV (and respectable resolution and sub pixels) of the Index?

 

Any other Pro vs Con you can add or have heard others mention?

[Sr.]

Concerns...

 

I have an AMD system:

 

Seeing reviews like this multiple places.

Don’t bother if you have an AMD system

Incompatible with AMD systems, especially x570 chipsets. Customer service is awful and a pain to get in touch with. Their website refuses to give you their phone number if they can’t validate the serial number when you type it in. Apparently they don’t even keep track of the serial, so it won’t give you their phone number. HP also refuses to acknowledge the incompatibility even though it affects a huge amount of people. Go ahead, Google G2 x570 error 7-14. Do yourself a favor and stay away from their terrible service and quality control."

[Werewolf_fs]

I have a G2, with an AMD 5900x system, X570 Aorus Pro and RTX3900 gigabyte, and except for some problem with 
the USB solved with an external powered HUB, I'm doing great, the image quality is the best right now on the market. 
I've tried Rift, rift S, index, Q2 and none come close to image quality.
The worst thing is having to use SteamVR, I hate it.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Werewolf_fs

[Sr.]

The worst thing is having to use SteamVR, I hate it.

What's the alternative?

[zildac]

32 minutes ago, Werewolf_fs said:

I have a G2, with an AMD 5900x system, X570 Aorus Pro and RTX3900 gigabyte, and except for some problem with 
the USB solved with an external powered HUB, I'm doing great, the image quality is the best right now on the market. 
I've tried Rift, rift S, index, Q2 and none come close to image quality.
The worst thing is having to use SteamVR, I hate it.

 

And WMR is OK?

[streakeagle]

My biggest complaint about the G2 is having to use both WMR and SteamVR. I much prefer the Oculus software in terms of stability/performance/ease of use. Since the Index also uses SteamVR, that's not really a penalty when comparing the two. While I very much want a wider field of view, lower resolution stretched over a wider view is a loss in image quality. Going from a Rift S, the G2 dramatically increases the resolution and slightly improves the field of view. I would still like to try a Valve Index, but I am not going to buy one when I already have and love the image quality and performance of the G2.

[Werewolf_fs]

Not but

hace 38 minutos, zildac dijo:

And WMR is OK?

No, but if dcs used openXR the performance would be much better

 

[zildac]

14 minutes ago, Werewolf_fs said:

Not but

No, but if dcs used openXR the performance would be much better

 

Obviously...

28 minutes ago, streakeagle said:

My biggest complaint about the G2 is having to use both WMR and SteamVR. I much prefer the Oculus software in terms of stability/performance/ease of use. Since the Index also uses SteamVR, that's not really a penalty when comparing the two. While I very much want a wider field of view, lower resolution stretched over a wider view is a loss in image quality. Going from a Rift S, the G2 dramatically increases the resolution and slightly improves the field of view. I would still like to try a Valve Index, but I am not going to buy one when I already have and love the image quality and performance of the G2.

This is my pet peeve., agreed.

[AlpineGTA]

I'm sure there are lots of people using the G2 very happily without any issues but I'm not one of them. From my experience I would find it hard to recommend the G2. After working perfectly, after a couple of weeks, without changing anything on my PC, it just stopped.

 

I'm not sure it's specifically an AMD problem (I have an AMD GPU), because I've also seen reports of people with Nvidia GPUs having problems, I think it's more something to do with the USB connection. I've tried everything recommended on the internet, including a powered USB hub and add on PCI-E card but nothing has worked. I'm currently waiting on another PCI-E USB card that I've ordered, hoping that will finally fix it... 

[nobuttons]

3 hours ago, Sr. said:

Concerns...

Don’t bother if you have an AMD system

Incompatible with AMD systems, especially x570 chipsets. Customer service is awful and a pain to get in touch with. Their website refuses to give you their phone number if they can’t validate the serial number when you type it in. Apparently they don’t even keep track of the serial, so it won’t give you their phone number. HP also refuses to acknowledge the incompatibility even though it affects a huge amount of people. Go ahead, Google G2 x570 error 7-14. Do yourself a favor and stay away from their terrible service and quality control."

 

I had this problem (with an AMD board), but a powered USB hub from Anker fixed the problem.

I have both an Index and  G2 and have been meaning to do an optimized head to head comparison with DCS for a while, so maybe I will do this weekend.
I would guess that if you can get a G2 in stock, it's a better choice because that clarity is going to be really really useful for reading in cockpit controls (and I fly an F14 so lots of gauges to read and buttons to press  and HOTAS with little on my HUD), and the inside out tracking is just a bit more stable and smooth than the lighthouse tracking.

The G2 controllers are hot garbage, but if you're just focused on DCS then it doesn't matter really.

 

The FOV for the two is effectively the same. Pimax "small" FOV setting is the first meaningful step up in FOV, but sadly anything more than small just destroys DCS in it's current version even with a top end machine. We'll see how that changes come March...

[PicklePicklePickle]

I have both the G2 and the Index, as well as Pimax. My G2 is not here, it is at HP waiting to get replaced due to a WMR error 4-1 that just showed up a couple weeks after I got it. Nothing changed in my systems, I got the same error on all 3 and they are Intel+nvidia systems, so it is a problem with the G2.

 

If the G2 did not have this problem, I would recommend slightly it over the Index. My reasons would have been: no screen door effect, better resolution, no need for lighthouses and the fact that it is the only headset that gave me no eye strain at all. Due to the widespread defects requiring replacement, I would recommend the Index.

 

This is not meant to knock the Index, it has been rock solid and I love it. It has a better FOV than the G2. Setting up the lighthouses is a pain but once you figure it out, it works fine. But I had to change my sim setup because otherwise I didn't have line of sight to mount them and that sucked, when the G2 tracked fine anywhere.

 

Honestly, the resolution is not even that big of a deal, especially since it is so hard to smoothly drive high resolutions in DCS right now. If the Index did not require lighthouses and had no screen door effect, it would be pretty perfect for the state of technology right now in my humble opinion.

 

[Sr.]

Thanks for all the info.

 

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on an Index. Headset only.

 

I already have a pair of lighthouses, and don't even use the controllers I have already.

 

 

[streakeagle]

I should also mention that my G2 is out for warranty replacement. It started failing regularly (going blue screen and disconnecting from the PC) after just 1.5 to 2 months of use. Because they are out of stock, the estimated replacement date is March 12, a full 1.5 months from the day they received it. It was nice that they didn't hesitate to replace it after a very short tech support chat session, but not so nice that they can't replace it anytime soon. In the mean time, I have been bouncing back and forth between my old Rift S and the Quest 2 I bought my son for Christmas.

 

The Rift S is reliable, but the mic never worked (it would stop working fairly quickly when used with Vaicom/SRS after getting it to work by pulling the usb connection out and putting it back in) and the audio was crap, so I wear a headset with a mic to use it with Vaicom/SRS/Discord.

 

The Quest 2 was a little more difficult to get set up, but after getting the link speed maxed out and the graphics quality settings where they need to be, it has far superior image quality and slightly higher frame rates (back to the 90/45 fps of the CV1 vs the 80/40 fps of the S). But it is more difficult to use. Every time I put it on, I have to use a controller to link to the PC. At which point, the mic doesn't work. Then I have to pull out the usb cable, plug it back in, and connect to the computer again to get the mic operational. Unlike the Rift S, the mic stays operational until I shut down my PC. Sometimes it disconnects in the middle of playing DCS and you have to shut down DCS using the task manager to get back in. While the image quality is far superior to the Rift S with higher resolution and no screen door, it is quite inferior to the G2. The image is being compressed for transport over the USB link cable and it shows. Even with the image quality maxed out, there is a slight blurry compressed jpg look to the image, which actually acts a bit like anti-aliasing. But the cockpit indications suffer. It has nowhere near the sharpness/clarity of the G2, yet still looks substantially better than the Rift S. So, I would score the Quest 2 as being about halfway between the Rift S and G2 in image quality/resolution. When you use the Quest 2 as a standalone, the image quality is much better... no blurry compression effects. The clarity is much more comparable to the G2.

 

I still have nearly a month before I am supposed to get my G2 back... and that date was just an estimate

[imacken]

Well, having owned (among others) the G1, Index and G2, there is, IMO, nothing in favour for the Index over the G2 apart from a wider FOV. Resolution was king with the G1, although certain aspects of the Index were superior, e.g. comfort, audio, hardware IPD etc.,but all these things were addressed with the G2. 
As I said, resolution is king!

[nobuttons]

Quick update since I promised it here... yesterday I tried a head to head comparison of Index, G2, and Pimax 8KX.

 

TL;DR : If you want the cheapest simplest out of the box option that works *right now* and will give you a near top of the line DCS experience ... get an Index.

 

Index Pro: Easy setup; Great color and contrast; Large 'in focus' area; High enough resolution to read cockpit (with VR texture mods); Low enough resolution to sit solid at 90hz.  

Index Con: Slightly visible screen door on flat color areas of mid tone; Your effects quality will go up as DCS upgrades or your get better GPUs, but the visual quality is 'done'.

 

G2 Con: Compatibility 'shim' between WMR and SteamVR causes DCS to run at effectively 'half framerate' basically negating the resolution advantage. Unless you are already used to living in 'reprojection land' or can't afford the extra $400 to get an Index I can't in any conscience recommend this. Hand tracking is absolute garbage - for other VR games and will require you keep arms up and forward. This is fine if you only want to play Beat Saber (or just sims), but will totally break the fun for games like Alyx, Boneworks, Pavlov, VR Chat, etc.

G2 Pro: Lightest and most comfortable headset ever IMO, even though the strap adjustment is janky; Great visual quality, no screen door; Super cheap; When/if the WMR / Steam VR glitch is fixed should be an amazing seated VR experience for the price... when/if.

 

Pimax 8KX Con: You pay for more headset than any PC can actually drive today. Even after all that, it's a super janky manual hobby (like download command line utilities written in Chinese. manual) to configure the darn thing with absolutely no docs or support, and often requires a reboot when switching games or even making simple setting adjustments. Even after manual tweaking color saturation is washed out. Speaking of hobby, the headset is crazy uncomfortable and unbalanced out of the box. Oh yeah, the default speakers are garbage. Oh, lets not forget that DCS struggles to keep up with this headset.

Pimax 8KX Pro: The field of view and the resolution are the best hands down. The hand tracking is amazing, and by far the best, hands down. The cable is the lightest and simplest. When DCS gets more optimized and the next gen of GPUs comes out, this headset will be ready and will really shine. 30 mins with some tire weights and double sided velcro tape and scissors fixes the Pimax comfort - while it's still the heaviest, after adjustment I find it the most comfortable. FWIW I fly DCS in the Pimax on a daily basis because of the rez and hand tracking (come on, I'm a flight simmer in DCS making my own cockpit, of course an overpriced hobbyst headset is going to be my pick).

Edited February 21, 2021 by nobuttons

[imacken]

25 minutes ago, nobuttons said:

G2 Con: Compatibility 'shim' between WMR and SteamVR causes DCS to run at effectively 'half framerate' basically negating the resolution advantage. Unless you are already used to living in 'reprojection land' or can't afford the extra $400 to get an Index I can't in any conscience recommend this. Hand tracking is absolute garbage - for other VR games and will require you keep arms up and forward. This is fine if you only want to play Beat Saber (or just sims), but will totally break the fun for games like Alyx, Boneworks, Pavlov, VR Chat, etc.

G2 Pro: Lightest and most comfortable headset ever IMO, even though the strap adjustment is janky; Great visual quality, no screen door; Super cheap; When/if the WMR / Steam VR glitch is fixed should be an amazing seated VR experience for the price... when/if.

 

 

It's obviously a matter of opinion, but mine is that I can't agree with most of what you have said.

I really don't know what you are meaning re SteamVR/WMR, and your experience of the hand tracking is the total opposite of mine.  I have played many games with the G2 including Alyx, Boneworks, etc. without any issues at all.  I have also played Alyx all through on the Index and the controller tracking is no better or worse.

As I said above, after spending a long time with the G1, Index and G2, in my opinion, the G2 is a clear winner in almost all respects.

Maybe you didn't have the G2 setup correctly in the short time you had - the Index is certainly easier to setup out of the box - but something doesn't seem quite right.

 

[dburne]

Yeah I played Alyx and Medal of Honor Above and Beyond and did not have any issue with the controller tracking in my G2.

[Sr.]

"Because they are out of stock, the estimated replacement date is March 12"

 

 

weird... I just ordered one yesterday(via HP store), delivery date 2/25.

 

I'm going to test drive it and the Index to see which I like best. Assuming the Index arrives early enough.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Sr.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, DigitalEngine said:

Question, when using the G2 inside/out tracking, will it work in a dark room (as in pitch black dark, no lights, no windows)?

 

 

No.

[freehand]

1 hour ago, DigitalEngine said:

Question, when using the G2 inside/out tracking, will it work in a dark room (as in pitch black dark, no lights, no windows)?

 

Why would anyone want to do that ?

Edited February 22, 2021 by freehand

[Sr.]

2 minutes ago, freehand said:

Why would anyone want to do that ?

 

 

[freehand]

1 hour ago, Sr. said:

 

You know what sarcasm is. 

[GunSlingerAUS]

On 2/20/2021 at 4:10 AM, Werewolf_fs said:

 

No, but if dcs used openXR the performance would be much better

 

 

Says who? There's no guarantee of any performance improvement whatsoever - I'm guessing there might be a slight overheard using WMR, but only a couple of percent at best.

[Werewolf_fs]

hace 6 horas, GunSlingerAUS dijo:

 

¿Dice quién? No hay garantía de ninguna mejora en el rendimiento; supongo que podría haber una leve escucha al usar WMR, pero solo un par de por ciento en el mejor de los casos.

The communication of WMR and SteamVR is very problematic and generates a lot of cracks and performance losses, . 
But... if what this wmr engineer says IS TRUE, THIS CAN CHANGE:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/lmyusg/windows_mixed_reality_for_steamvr_updated_12536/gny596p/

"One of the notable ones is a change we're working on with Valve that'll significantly reduce the amount of GPU memory used when running SteamVR. That one's exciting because we've found it has a cascading effect - a lot of VR workloads tend to max out the GPU memory, and reducing the amount used reduces the need for memory paging, leading to a smoother overall experience"

 

While, for now, the performance of WMR for SteamVR is quite poor, especially with DCS

Edited February 22, 2021 by Werewolf_fs

[imacken]

39 minutes ago, Werewolf_fs said:

The communication of WMR and SteamVR is very problematic and generates a lot of cracks and performance losses, . 
But... if what this wmr engineer says IS TRUE, THIS CAN CHANGE:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/lmyusg/windows_mixed_reality_for_steamvr_updated_12536/gny596p/

"One of the notable ones is a change we're working on with Valve that'll significantly reduce the amount of GPU memory used when running SteamVR. That one's exciting because we've found it has a cascading effect - a lot of VR workloads tend to max out the GPU memory, and reducing the amount used reduces the need for memory paging, leading to a smoother overall experience"

 

While, for now, the performance of WMR for SteamVR is quite poor, especially with DCS

 

Not for me it isn't. Works perfectly!