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Is JDAM AutoLoft already implemented?


raus

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Hi!

 

I've found some confusing info cross-checking posts and YT videos... So far, I can see the symbology for the Auto Loft delivery working (except for missing pull-up cues). But when I try it, bombs are not released, regardless of me climbing with the set angle (15-30-45°), holding pickle button before the release mark crosses the FPM... If I switch to Manual, bombs release as always.

 

I have seen a couple videos where this mode seems to be working (one lofting, one from Wags on level flight), but I am not sure if I am missing something...

 

Thanks!!

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The Loft Initiation cues are certainly not implemented yet. (Along with Launch Points, Dynamic In zone cues, proper pickle behavior etc)

 

When I've personally tried to do a 15 loft, the JDAM often didn't release and when it did, didn't guide at all properly. There seems to be serious issues with the IN ZONE calculation at the moment, even in level flight. This is true for A10C II as well.

 

On top of that the terminal parameters entry doesn't get reflected on the Dynamic In Zone trapezoid on the HSI. Still WIP I hope. It's safe to say that JDAM's in general need a lot of work, including additional features, to make them as useful as they should be.

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Well, I have just made an additional test, so here are the results:

 

  • PP mode: Entered the coordinates, set Auto-loft to 30°
    • Approaching the target in NOE flight, then pull-up to 30°, 5nm from the target... bombs do not release
    • Level flight at 20k, wait for the release mark, with pickle held 5-10 seconds before the mark crosses FPM... bombs do not release
  • Changed to TOO, found the very same target with the TPOD, and designated it, keeping all other info (Auto-loft 30°), fly level and... bombs did release!!

Weird...

 

(edit: grammar)


Edited by raus
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On 2/19/2021 at 3:25 PM, AvroLanc said:

The Loft Initiation cues are certainly not implemented yet. (Along with Launch Points, Dynamic In zone cues, proper pickle behavior etc)

 

When I've personally tried to do a 15 loft, the JDAM often didn't release and when it did, didn't guide at all properly. There seems to be serious issues with the IN ZONE calculation at the moment, even in level flight. This is true for A10C II as well.

 

On top of that the terminal parameters entry doesn't get reflected on the Dynamic In Zone trapezoid on the HSI. Still WIP I hope. It's safe to say that JDAM's in general need a lot of work, including additional features, to make them as useful as they should be.

I was wondering about launch points, since ED never mentioned those. Do you think it will be implemented?

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11 hours ago, LastRifleRound said:

JDAMs are kind of a mess. QTY doesn't work right either in AUTO. The only reliable way to use them is in MAN mode, no term parameters set, and heading to the target. This will almost always work. 

 

Yeah, JDAMs have taken a downgrade in recent updates. Terminal parameters are very unreliable, since the IN ZONE displayed is often not correct, espcially at the edges of the envolepe. Also the flight timers (TTI) are always in error now. I see impacts with often 12+ seconds still running on the timer. They used to be far better at various points last year, to the exact second at one point.

 

11 hours ago, BarTzi said:

I was wondering about launch points, since ED never mentioned those. Do you think it will be implemented?

 

Well Wags made numerous references to Launch Points as a future feature way back when JDAMs were first introduced. (See his youtube videos and comments, as well as mini-updates)

Among the items Wag's referred to and not yet implemented:

 

  • Launch Points 
  • Separate Target symbols for each PP target on the HSI (with impact heading stick)
  • Dynamic IN ZONE zone that actually takes the term parameters into account
  • Pre-planned IZLAR indications on HSI (that can be decluttered using the HSI option)
  • Correct pickle behavior (at least 300ms delay when pickle, more for longer QTYs)
  • More fuse options - JPF (fancy delay fuse), DSU-33 (airburst fuse)
  • Loft initiation cues on HSI

All of these explicitly mentioned either inside a video or in comments. Hopefully coming soon, please don't forget ED. JDAMs missing lots of cool button mashing functionality. 

 

Edit:

I found a quote from a Wag's mini update 25th March 2019:

 

''Later, AUTO delivery and much more detailed attack information will be added like the Launch Acceptable Region (LAR), dynamic launch zones, terminal attack option, launch points, release zones, JPF, BIT/MUMI pages, and multiple attack zones will be available.''

 

(Not the only example)


Edited by AvroLanc
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  • 3 months later...
8 minutes ago, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

It is

It is. But only in a very basic sense.

 

JDAM can be released in AUTO LFT mode, but at the moment it offers no real advantage over MANUAL mode.

 

The edge of envelope (Just inside Max Range / IZLAR) releases are very unreliable energy wise. This is especially true if you've set any terminal parameters. You basically have to construct (guess) your own IZLAR for anything but the most forgiving combination of impact HDG and ANG. You have to drive to well inside the LAR to get results.

 

The 'LOFT' side of AUTO LOFT is useless since the IZLAR isn't reliable at all in any kind of dynamic maneuvering. The Loft Initiations Cues on HSI are not yet implemented.

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Well, last time I tried, all the mentioned things were missing. Specially, no cues on hud, and bombs would not release, when trying to loft them, or even drop level… I have not tried again, as I got the responses above about the incomplete implementation, and they were matching my experience, but I did not see it mentioned in any changelog, so assuming it is still the same

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A: launch point cue isnt specific to autoloft 

B: many things are not mentioned in the changelog

C : since most people dont have the manual and they hear from sme's and those that have it keep mentioning how incomplete is ofc they're going to classify it as incomplete


Edited by IkarusC42B Pilot
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2 hours ago, raus said:

Well, last time I tried, all the mentioned things were missing. Specially, no cues on hud, and bombs would not release, when trying to loft them, or even drop level… I have not tried again, as I got the responses above about the incomplete implementation, and they were matching my experience, but I did not see it mentioned in any changelog, so assuming it is still the same

What special cues are you expecting in the HUD? When you press auto/loft you get the AUTO symbology in the HUD just fine, and it releases when the release cue passes through the VV just like it should. As for the loft initiation cue, thats shown by the appearance of the release cue. When it appears pull back and you will achieve correct loft at release. Whether or not thats working properly now or if its bugged is not something I concern with because lofting a JDAM is silly. The AP flies the most optimum path for the bomb, if it needed to loft it would loft itself.

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4 hours ago, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

Yes,there are many things missing or wip from jdam. Auto loft isnt one of them. Its complete and properly modelled


That’s probably being a bit pedantic. Yes, Auto Loft will show symbology and drop a bomb at the release cue. In that sense it’s modelled. 
However if you take a wider view, then clearly Launch Points, Loft Initiation cues, Multiple Target points, working dynamic IZLAR etc all are designed to integrate closely with AUTO LOFT. Hence AUTO LOFT being somewhat simple at the moment. It’s not a full experience. 

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15 minutes ago, AvroLanc said:


 Loft Initiation

There is no loft initiation cues on hsi,there is no loft initiation cue to begin with. There is elevation steering line and the rest dosent have anything to do with auto loft specifically


Edited by IkarusC42B Pilot
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2 minutes ago, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

There is no loft initiation cues on hsi and the rest dosent have anything to do with auto loft specifically


Launch points require Auto Loft mode to guide you to the correct point in the sky. 
If we did have the loft initiation cues on the HSI it would make Auto mode more useful, they tie in together. 
The lack of all these functions means we can’t utilise Auto mode to its full design potential, hence my argument for it being simplistic at the moment. Anyway, it’s a minor point. 

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2 minutes ago, AvroLanc said:


Launch points require Auto Loft mode to guide you to the correct point in the sky. 
If we did have the loft initiation cues on the HSI it would make Auto mode more useful, they tie in together. 
The lack of all these functions means we can’t utilise Auto mode to its full design potential, hence my argument for it being simplistic at the moment. Anyway, it’s a minor point. 

What is your documentation again?

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14 minutes ago, AvroLanc said:


Launch points require Auto Loft mode to guide you to the correct point in the sky. 
If we did have the loft initiation cues on the HSI it would make Auto mode more useful, they tie in together. 
The lack of all these functions means we can’t utilise Auto mode to its full design potential, hence my argument for it being simplistic at the moment. Anyway, it’s a minor point. 

Sounds like you are thinking of FD

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14 minutes ago, Swiftwin9s said:

Sounds like you are thinking of FD

 

Applies to AUTO LOFT as well.

 

The 'Elevation Steering Cue' and the 'Range to LP' should be available in AUTO LFT, as long as a LP is defined. The Loft Initiation Cue (on HSI) is only available in AUTO LFT (with an IZLAR displayed).

 

Obviously mainly applies to PP mode.

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34 minutes ago, AvroLanc said:

 

Applies to AUTO LOFT as well.

 

The 'Elevation Steering Cue' and the 'Range to LP' should be available in AUTO LFT, as long as a LP is defined. The Loft Initiation Cue (on HSI) is only available in AUTO LFT (with an IZLAR displayed).

 

Obviously mainly applies to PP mode.

Should be available in, does not mean exclusive to

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12 minutes ago, Swiftwin9s said:

Should be available in, does not mean exclusive to


Indeed, it’s available in FD mode too. But FD mode isn’t modelled at all. As you know, FD mode isn’t even permitted with JDAM....At least at the time of the reference manuals publication. 
 

Doesn’t change the fact that our Auto/Loft mode is unfinished at the moment. 

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