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Ship vs ship missile combat


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I just finished these tests to find out  what ships can do to each other.

(Example- if you've got a Ticonderoga that's under attack by incoming Russian antiship missiles (Shipwreck/Sandbox/Moskit) there's no problem because the Tico has got green dots which indicate its SM-2 SAMs and Gatlings will engage all the missiles.

However, if a Chinese Destroyer 052B or a Frigate 054A launch their deadly YJ-83 missiles, they're red-dotted to indicate the Tico's SM-2's will have a much harder job locking onto them and firing.)

Post any comments, opinions, views, questions and thinly-veiled death threats etc in this thread..:)

 

DCS-Ship-combat-B.png

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Below: some anti-ship missile launches from the tests-

 

Tico launches a Harpoon

harp-tico.jpg


 

 

 

Russian Pyotr Veliky launches a Shipwreck

Shipwreck.png

 

 

 

Moskva launches Sandbox

Sandbox.jpg

 

 

 

 

Molniya launches Moskit

Moskit.png

 

 

 

Chinese Type 052B Destroyer launches YJ-83

YJ-83-ASM.png

 

 

 

Chinese Type 052C launches YJ-62

YJ-62-ASM.jpg


Edited by PoorOldSpike
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Below: a typical test setup, I launch a barrage of Anti-ship missiles at a target vessel, in this example a Lincoln carrier-

Moskits-v-Linc.png

 

 

 

BELOW: Some action screenshots from the tests-

 

Russian Shipwreck vs Burke

Shipwrck-v-Burke.png

 

 

 

3 Chinese vessels engage an incoming Harpoon with their 9M317 SAMs-

Chin-v-harp2.jpg

 

 

 

Tico fires its SM-2 SAMs and Gatling against incoming Chinese YJ-83's. Note the SM-2 self-destruct airburst because its lost the lock on the missile-
tic-v-yj83.jpg

 

 

 

A Russian Pyotr Velikiy engages a Chinese YJ-62 missile with Tor SAMs and Gatlings-

russ-v-chin.png

 

 

 

Russian Moskits get through this Burkes defences-

Moskit-v-Burke.jpg

 

 

 

A Tico engages a Chinese YJ-62 with SM-2 SAMs and Gatling-

YJ-62-ASM-v-Tic.png

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Nice job.

 

If you care to put in the effort, I would suggest counting the number of specific missiles required to disable a ship, and the total salvo necessary to get the required number through.

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Going by the numbers…

 

It's all about the comparison between the missile's “reflection” stat (essentially nose-aspect cross-section) in relation to the weapon system's and/or radar tracker's “reflection limit” — i.e. how small a target it can acquire.

 

Missile sizes (“reflection”)
Kh-41 Moskit / SS-N-22 “Sunburn” 0.8m²
P-500 Базальт / SS-N-12 “Sandbox” 1.2m²
P-700 Гранит / SS-N-19 “Shipwreck” 1.5m²
AGM-84A / S / E 0.08m²
(compare AGM-84D) 0.1691m²
YJ-62 0.121m²
YJ-83 0.121m²

 

Weapon systems
System Reflection limit Ships Potential to defeat
3K95 Kinzhal / SA-N-9 Gauntlet 0.02m² Pyotr Velikiy, Kuznetsov, Neustrashimy Everything
3M86 Kortik / CADS-N-1 Kashtan CIWS 0.1m² Pyotr Velikiy, Kuznetsov, Neustrashimy Kh-41, P-500, P-700, AGM-84D, YJ-62, YJ-83
4K33 Osa-M / SA-N-4 “Gecko” (0.1?) Grisha, Rezky, Moskva Kh-41, P-500, P-700, AGM-84D, YJ-62, YJ-83
A-213-Vympel-A / AK-630 CIWS 0.1m² Grisha, Moskva, Molniya, Kuznetsov Kh-41, P-500, P-700, AGM-84D, YJ-62, YJ-83
S-300F Fort / SA-N-6 “Grumble” 0.049m² Pyotr Velikiy, Moskva Everything*
S-300FM Fort-M / SA-N-20 “Grumble” 0.049m² Pyotr Velikiy Everything*
Phalanx CIWS 0.05m² CG-65, CVN-70 — -75, DDG-112, FFG-46, LHA-1 Everything
RIM-7 Sea Sparrow 0.02m² CVN-70 — -75 Everything*
RIM-66 SM2 0.1m² CG-65, DDG-112, FFG-46 Kh-41, P-500, P-700, AGM-84D, YJ-62, YJ-83
RIM-116 RAM 0.02m² (or IR) CVN-71 — -75, LHA-1 Everything
3S90M Smerch / SA-N-12 “Grizzly” 0.05m² 052B Everything
H/PJ12 / Type 730 CIWS 0.1m² 052B, 052C, 054A Kh-41, P-500, P-700, AGM-84D, YJ-62, YJ-83
HHQ-9 0.02m² 052C Everything
HQ-16 0.02m² 054A Everything

 

Three systems (the S-300:s and the Sea Sparrow) have an interesting limitation in that their minimum altitude is higher than most terminal sea-skimming altitudes, but the S-300 variants at leas will quite easily compensate for this by firing before the incoming missile descends to terminal altitude. Some missiles will also just fly way too high for their own good (for instance the YJ-62 and AGM-84A) and will just be mauled by anything anyway.

 

The Osa-M is an odd one in that it has no clearly defined reflection limit, but the regular Osa sits at 0.1, which seems consistent with its general behaviour.

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18 hours ago, Tippis said:

Going by the numbers…

 

It's all about the comparison between the missile's “reflection” stat (essentially nose-aspect cross-section) in relation to the weapon system's and/or radar tracker's “reflection limit” — i.e. how small a target it can acquire.

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

Weapon systems
System Reflection limit Ships Potential to defeat
       
3M86 Kortik / CADS-N-1 Kashtan CIWS 0.1m² Pyotr Velikiy, Kuznetsov, Neustrashimy Kh-41, P-500, P-700, AGM-84D, YJ-62, YJ-83
4K33 Osa-M / SA-N-4 “Gecko” (0.1?) Grisha, Rezky, Moskva Kh-41, P-500, P-700, AGM-84D, YJ-62, YJ-83
A-213-Vympel-A / AK-630 CIWS 0.1m² Grisha, Moskva, Molniya, Kuznetsov Kh-41, P-500, P-700, AGM-84D, YJ-62, YJ-83
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       

 

 

 

Something is seriously wrong with those reflection limits....like a couple of zeros missing.


Edited by Seaeagle
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A LOOK AT THE ANTISHIP MISSILE SPECS

 

The names of Anti-ship missiles in the Encyclopaedia sometimes don't match with the actual in-game 3D names, so for clarification here are their Encyc entries.

There's 1 American ASM (Harpoon), 3 Russian (Shipwreck,Sandbox and Moskit) and 2 Chinese (YJ-83 and YJ-82)

 

AMERICAN- there are 4 Harpoon versions in the game, 2 are land attack versions and the 2 below are anti-ship.

However the in-game 3D Harpoon is the AGM-84S version which isn't in the Encyc.

(I've yellow-boxed warhead weights for interests sake)

harpoons.png

 

 

RUSSIAN

The P-700 is the Shipwreck

The P-500 is the Sandbox

The KH-41 is called the 'Sunburn' in the Encyc, but called the 'Moskit' in the 3D game.

Russ-ASMs.png

 

 

CHINESE

China-ASMs.png


Edited by PoorOldSpike
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Below- A look at their names in the 3D game

 

(American) AGM-84S Harpoon

har2.png

 

 

(Russian) P-700 (SS-N-19 Shipwreck)

sh2.png

 

 

 

(Russian) P-500 (SS-N-12 Sandbox)

sbx2.png

 

 

(Russian) Kh-41 Moskit (ASM-MMS)

mkit2.png

 

 

(Chinese) YJ-83

y832.png

 

 

(Chinese) YJ-82

y622.png

 


Edited by PoorOldSpike
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10 minutes ago, PoorOldSpike said:

A LOOK AT THE ANTISHIP MISSILE SPECS

 

The names of Anti-ship missiles in the Encyclopaedia sometimes don't match with the actual in-game 3D names, so for clarification here are their Encyc entries-

(There's 1 American ASM in the game (Harpoon), 3 Russian and 2 Chinese)

 

AMERICAN- there are 4 Harpoons in the game, 2 are land attack versions and the 2 below are anti-ship.

However the in-game 3D Harpoon is the AGM-84S version which isn't in the Encyc.

(I've yellow-boxed warhead weights for interests sake)

 

 

 

RUSSIAN

The P-700 is the Shipwreck

The P-500 is the Sandbox

The KH-41 is called the 'Sunburn' in the Encyc, but called the 'Moskit' in the 3D game.

Yeah its a mess.

 

The ship launched version of the Harpoon is called RGM-84(several variants).

 

For the Russian SSMs;

 

P-700 "Granit"  is the complex name, while the missile itself is called 3M45 - NATO reporting name "SS-N-19 "Shipwreck"

P-500 "Bazalt" is the complex name, while the missile itself is called 4K80 - NATO reporting name: "SS-N-12" "Sandbox"

P-270 "Moskit is the complex name, while the missile itself is called 3M80 - NATO reporting name: "SS-N-22" "Sunburn"

 

A missile complex consists of guidance system(radar, opticals etc.), missile launchers and the missile.

 

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And speaking of missiles "radar reflections", I noticed in my tests that ships off to one side of an incoming missiles axis of approach seemed to be able to lock onto the missile better because they could see more of the missiles shape from the side, or did I imagine it?

Here's a typical screenshot; Chinese YJ-83's are coming in from the left down the blue arrows and are hitting the Russian Neustrashimy on the right which is burning.

The ship in the middle (yellow circle) is firing its Gatling at the missiles, but the ship on the left (yellow box) is firing its lethal Tor SAMs, possibly because it's locked onto the missiles larger side-aspect view-

 

Tors-v-chin2.png

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23 hours ago, GGTharos said:

Nice job.

 

If you care to put in the effort, I would suggest counting the number of specific missiles required to disable a ship, and the total salvo necessary to get the required number through.

 

 

WARHEAD WEIGHT

 

I might do some tests in the future, but for now the warhead weights as listed in the Encyclopaedia are a good guide to what damage they can inflict, and from observation I know bigger ships can absorb most damage.

These are the warhead weights as given in the Encyclopaedia, Red=Russian, Blue USA, Orange=China

 

Sandbox (1000 kg)

Shipwreck (750 kg)

Moskit (320 kg)

Harpoon (225 kg)

YJ-62 (210 kg)

YJ-83 (190 kg)

 

I just ran 2 short tests; in this one I subjected a Pyotr Velikiy cruiser to a saturation attack by Harpoons, it's already taken 12 hits and its health bar has dropped into the red-

red.png

 

 

 

Below: and after another 2 Harpoon hits, the ship vanishes from the map and begins to sink.

Therefore we can conclude 14 Harpoon AGM-84S hits will usually sink a cruiser-

sink.png

 

 

I then set up a Russian vs Russian test and hit the Pyotr Velikiy with a Sandbox saturation attack and it sank so fast after just 4 hits that i didn't have time to do screenshots!

Not surprising really, because the Sandbox's massive 1000 kg warhead is the biggest ship-launched antiship warhead in the game..:)

 

PS: Noob tip- Saturation attacks have always been my favourite tactic in all the wargames i've been playing for the past 40 years, whether land, sea or air, as I never waste my time pussy-footing around. One of my favourite sayings is-

"Never fear to use insanely overwhelming firepower, let the fear be your enemies"..:)


Edited by PoorOldSpike
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Also, while we're at it with the ship damage stats…

MOAR DATA MINING!

 

Ship hitpoints
FFL 1124.4 Grisha

1,600

FF 1135M Rezky 1,800
CGN 1144.2 Piotr Velikiy 6,500
CG 1164 Moskva 5,200
FSG 1241.1MP Molniya 1,100
CV 1143.5 Admiral Kuznetsov 7,000
FFG 11540 Neustrashimy 2,180
Type 052B Destroyer 2,700
Type 052C Destroyer 3,200
Type 054A Frigate 2,500
Type 071 Amphibious Transport Dock 7,300
Type 093 Attack Submarine 1,500
USS Arleigh Burke IIa 2,100
CV-59 USS Forrestal 7,300

Nimitz-class Carriers (CVN-70 – -75)

7,300
Oliver Hazard Perry class 2,300
LHA-1 Tarawa 7,300
Ticonderoga class 2,700

 

The remaining civilian ships (and the subs) sit at 2–400 hitpoints, except for the Handy Wind at 1,000.

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