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A-6 Intruder variants


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2 hours ago, Iron_physik said:

cockpit layout wise the SWIP and TRAM are mostly identical

its pretty much just internal wiring that changed to accept Walleye, Maverick, SLAM and HARM

the only really difference are some smaller switches in the B/N station to select the new weapons and to view their feedback on the FLIR screen

most of it was a software upgrade Late TRAMs even had many of the features retrofitted that SWIP had:

 

grafik.png

 

 

 

grafik.png

 

 

this update actually makes the SWIP easier to use, because it is more optimzed.

 

 

 

P.S.
the SWIP also received CCIP, something the TRAM lacks

 

 

The main cockpit differences between a full SWIP jet and a TRAM jet are:

1) Integrated Missile Panel (IMP) on the horizontal center console.

2) AN/ALR-67A(V)

3) New warning lights either side of the gunsight.

 

CCIP was introduced on both SWIP & TRAM jets, as TRAM aircraft also received the OFP software updates.

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8 hours ago, Blaze1 said:

The main cockpit differences between a full SWIP jet and a TRAM jet are:

1) Integrated Missile Panel (IMP) on the horizontal center console.

2) AN/ALR-67A(V)

3) New warning lights either side of the gunsight.

 

CCIP was introduced on both SWIP & TRAM jets, as TRAM aircraft also received the OFP software updates.

thanks, good to know^^

 

I checked the manual and here are the panels for a late TRAM / Early SWIP cockpit

 

 

the Missile panel:

Spoiler


grafik.png

 

 


AN/ARL-67 panel:

Spoiler


grafik.png

 


New Warning lights:

Spoiler


grafik.png

 

 


I also found the different fuzing panel:

Spoiler


grafik.png

 

 

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Not sure if already pointed out, but in the Reach-4-the-skies video teaser, the A-6 featured doesn't have the SWIP wing folds or " fatter" outer wing pylons. Of course the video might just be showing the AI version and when the full flyable version comes along (a long-time from now) all bets are off.

 

My vote is for the SWIP version - just seems to offer more options and fits in with the late/mid 90's F-14 B already developed.. 

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On 2/14/2021 at 8:24 PM, Iron_physik said:

 

A-6 Does have acces to all Navy sidewinders:

grafik.png

 

early models where even rated to carry Mk.4 gunpods

 

Unfortunately it's one missle per station and takes away an important hardpoint.

No wonder they never flew with them 🙂

 

an A-10 style double launcher would have made it easier to bite the bullet 

 

guess we'll need competent CAP around 🙂

 

is there a list of "common" loadouts?

also, no MER/TER for GBU-12/16? That's disappointing.

 

that's TRAM loadout. What about SWIP?

 


Edited by uri_ba
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Since it's HB, I kind of hope they might be able to provide both TRAM and SWIP variants as the differences between them are relatively few and they already have the AN/ALR-67 done for the B Tomcat, plus ED has already implemented all these extra guided weapons for the Hornet (e.g. HARMs, SLAMs, Walleye & Laser MAVs) so they can simply be reused.


Edited by Dudikoff
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I would like to have A-6E up to 1980s TRAM and maybe WCSI. After that USSR collapsed, Intruder lost it's puropose and US Navy lost it's founding.

In 1990s they planned to replace A-6 by A-12 advanced strike aircraft or at least thorouhgly upgrade it to A-6F with digital avionics and Hornet engines but even this had to be rejected by US Navy with it's post USSR founding.

 

Up do 1980s Intruder was very capable workhorse of the US Navy and i can imagine it will offer some super exciting experience when, not having standoff weapon, two guys will have to work hard to make low level strikes, at night, through dark canyons, avoiding enemy, dropping bombs at point blank range.

 

But in mid 1990s Intruder was already badly outdated, possible to use only against limited enemy and only against older systems. If we would have only this obsolete in 1990s SWIP version it wouldn't do this great plane justice at all. In 1990s every other aircraft can drop guided standoff weapon from save distance and get back home.

 

That's what real A-6 Intruder pilot, Francesco "Paco" Chierici, said about A-6E SWIP upgrade:

Quote

The newest jets I ever flew in the Navy were Intruders in VA-155. We began receiving newly winged SWIP (System Weapon Improvement Program) jets as soon as I checked in on board. Many had come right out of the factory, then diverted into the program to upgrade them with new wings and digital integration. I flew jets that had barely ten hours on them, with none of the paint worn off and all of the labels for the buttons and switches still visible.  

 

Yet even with the upgrade in capabilities, the Intruder was not survivable in the modern battlespace. With the advent of the newest Russian SAM systems, the sanctuary of low-flight was removed. The Intruder could carry a massive bomb load, but modern warfare demanded precision over quantity. Anyone could carry LGBs at that point and the introduction of GPS-aided JDAM made delivering ordnance precisely in any weather almost as simple as entering GPS coordinates.  

 

The mission the Intruder had been designed for and had excelled at, all weather, day/night, low-level delivery of tons of ordnance, had disappeared. 

 

The whole interview is interesting and shows why the last SWIP version would be actually by far the LEAST interesting of them all to fly in simulator like DCS.


Edited by Berserk
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3 hours ago, Berserk said:

I would like to have A-6E up to 1980s TRAM and maybe WCSI. After that USSR collapsed, Intruder lost it's puropose and US Navy lost it's founding.

In 1990s they planned to replace A-6 by A-12 advanced strike aircraft or at least thorouhgly upgrade it to A-6F with digital avionics and Hornet engines but even this had to be rejected by US Navy with it's post USSR founding.

 

Up do 1980s Intruder was very capable workhorse of the US Navy and i can imagine it will offer some super exciting experience when, not having standoff weapon, two guys will have to work hard to make low level strikes, at night, through dark canyons, avoiding enemy, dropping bombs at point blank range.

 

But in mid 1990s Intruder was already badly outdated, possible to use only against limited enemy and only against older systems. If we would have only this obsolete in 1990s SWIP version it wouldn't do this great plane justice at all. In 1990s every other aircraft can drop guided standoff weapon from save distance and get back home.

 

That's what real A-6 Intruder pilot, Francesco "Paco" Chierici, said about A-6E SWIP upgrade:

 

The whole interview is interesting and shows why the last SWIP version would be actually by far the LEAST interesting of them all to fly in simulator like DCS.

 

in reality the SWIP didnt lose any capabilities though

it only gained them.

 

so just like earlier A-6 models the SWIP can still do, and did low level strikes at night with unguided weapons.

 

unknown.png?width=1440&height=537

unknown.png

 


Yes, the SWIP got the ability to use SLAM, Maverick, Walleye
But this doesnt stop it from using the other weapons as well

the fact that the SWIP gained the ability for more modern weapons actually makes it more interesting for DCS, because it can take part in more scenarios and be overall more usefull.

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4 hours ago, Berserk said:

I would like to have A-6E up from 1980s TRAM and maybe WCSI. After that USSR collapsed Intruder lost it's puropose and US Navy lost it's founding.

In 1990s they planned to replace A-6 by A-12 advanced strike aircraft or at least thorouhgly upgrade it to A-6F with digital avionics and Hornet engines but even this had to be rejected by US Navy with it's post USSR founding.

 

Up do 1980s Intruder was very capable workhorse of the US Navy and i can imagine it will offer some super exciting experience when, not having standoff weapon, two guys will have to work hard to make low level strikes, at night, through dark canyons, avoiding enemy.

 

But in mid 1990s Intruder was already badly outdated, possible to use only against handicapped enemy and only against older systems. If we would have only this obsolete 1990s version it wouldn't do this great plane justice. 

 

That's what real A-6 Intruder pilot, Francesco "Paco" Chierici, said about A-6E SWIP upgrade:

 

 

 

Yes, that's exactly my point and that's why I woul like to see a Cold Ear Intruder when it shined and has it's purpose.

Standoff weapon was what killed A-6. In era of standoff weapon every aircraft, even the smallest and lightest fighter could do exactly the same as heavy specialsed attack aircrafts.

Why in 1990s sending slow and heavy intruder with i.e. SLAM if small fast Hornet can do exactly the same plus it can perform air combat at the same time, plus it will not restrict carrier space for specialised attack aircrafts.

That's why navy retired them, time of low level penetration strikes gone.

 

There is an interview with Soviet/Russian Su-27/Su-35 pilot, here on DCS forum, he stated Su-24 and Su-34 are not needed - Su-35 can do everything they can and far more. He said Su-34 wan made only to save the industry. He also stated in era of standoff weapon any tactical bombers or attack aircrafts lost their purpose and that's why they were phased out everywhere. With modern standoff weapon fighter is doing everything.

 

This technological revolution killed all strike aircrafts, after Soviets fell USAF retired F-111, US Navy retired A-6 and A-7, Britain retired Tornado slightly later but use it as standoff Stormshadow and JDAM truck, Russia retired Su-17 and maintained Su-24 but also as standoff weapon truck.

 

 

Dissolution of Soviet Union was the second reason - there was no longer a threat of full scale war. Russia lost nearly all capability of Soviets to wage a war, it lost most of it's equipment, aircrafts, ground forces, 3/4 of the - once mighty - Soviet Fleet, the biggest airbases overgrown with grass, drastic cuts in training, close to no modernisation. And what remained in Russia was barely ready to low intensity small conflict.

In this situation US and rest of NATO also dramatically cut their spendings because it was not needed anymore.

A-6.jpg

 

----------------------

Cold War Intruder performing low level penetration strikes would be one the most attractive modules possible to make in DCS.

1990s outdated Intruder as a standoff weapon truck would be just a missed opportunity.

 

When real pilot serving so many years on Intruders is stating in 1990s SWIP were outdated and impossible to use in high threat environment and their mission disappeared - it means something.

 

 

But looking at the Heatblur's Tomcat we may count on at least two variants, one Cold War low level penetrator and one modernised for standoff weapon just before retirement.


Edited by bies
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27 minutes ago, bies said:

Cold War Intruder performing low level penetration strikes would be one the most attractive modules possible to make in DCS.

1990s outdated Intruder as a standoff weapon truck would be just a missed opportunity.

 

the more modern models are still able to do that, infact they are better at it.

 

a SWIP can do low level unguided bombs strike exactly like the TRAM can do, the only addition is that the SWIP can also carry more modern munition while staying mostly the same.

it literally was just a software upgrade done in the mid to late 80s (first SWIP was made in 1986, about 10 years after TRAM)

SWIP and TRAM served in the same amount of conflicts
so saying the TRAM is more interesting than the SWIP doesnt really make a lot of sense

 

29 minutes ago, bies said:

When real pilot serving so many years on Intruders is stating in 1990s SWIP were outdated and impossible to use in high threat environment and their mission disappeared - it means something.

intruder didnt retire because it was outdated, no it retired because of politicians killing it trying to push the A-12.

 

the A-6 is one of the more capable planes to deal with high thread enviroments

it literally was the main SEAD aircraft of the navy during desert storm and still went on to bomb targets in that area until 1993

 

many of the navy high ranking personell actually thought the A-6 went to soon and it left a big gap in the navies capabilities

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Iron_physik said:

many of the navy high ranking personell actually thought the A-6 went to soon and it left a big gap in the navies capabilities

That has less to do with its capabilities and more to do with its range (and the Tomcat's) being considerably larger than the Hornet-only fleet they have now though.

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57 minutes ago, Iron_physik said:

 

a SWIP can do low level unguided bombs strike exactly like the TRAM can do, the only addition is that the SWIP can also carry more modern munition while staying mostly the same.

it literally was just a software upgrade done in the mid to late 80s (first SWIP was made in 1986, about 10 years after TRAM)

SWIP and TRAM served in the same amount of conflicts

 

SWIP could do low level strike in high threat environment under one condition - going back in time at least a decade.

 

Real life A-6 pilot stated SWIP can't do that because it was not survivable when it became operational and it's mission disappeared.

 

Or maybe i didn't understand you and you are just proposing using 1990s SWIP in 1980s just restricting it's weapon?

 

But the last sentence is absolutely not correct - TRAM and SWIP didn't serve in the same amount of conflicts. Not even close. 

 

  • A-6E TRAM served in all US Navy engagement since 1980. Force in Lebanon 1983, Gulf of Sidra 1986, El Dorado Canyon 1986, Praying Mantis 1988. SWIP wasn't even a thing those times.
  • Partial SWIP, not fully upgraded, served as vast minority in Desert Storm along with majority of classic TRAM aircrafts
  • Full SWIP so called Block 1a became operational in year 1994. The only one possible operation could be "Joint Endeavor" in 1996 in Bosnia but it was just peacekeeping operation and arguably SWIP Block 1 didn't drop even one bomb in anger. After return from this operation A-6E it has been withdrawn from service.

Edited by bies
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6 minutes ago, bies said:

 

SWIP could do low level strike in high threat environment under one condition - going back in time at least a decade.

Real life A-6 pilot stated SWIP can't do that when it became operational.

 

Or maybe i didn't understand you and you are just proposing using 1990s SWIP in 1980s just restricting it's weapon?

 

But the last sentence is absolutely not correct - TRAM and SWIP didn't serve in the same amount of conflicts. Not even close. 

 

  • A-6E TRAM served in all US Navy engagement since 1980. Force in Lebanon 1983, Gulf of Sidra 1986, El Dorado Canyon 1986, Praying Mantis 1988. SWIP wasn't even a thing those times.
  • Partial SWIP, not fully upgraded, served as vast minority in Desert Storm along with majority of classic TRAM aircrafts
  • Full SWIP so called Block 1a became operational in year 1994. The only one possible operation could be "Joint Endeavor" in 1996 in Bosnia but it was just peacekeeping operation and arguably SWIP Block 1 didn't drop even one bomb in anger. After return from this operation A-6E it has been withdrawn from service.

My understanding is that the difference between the SWIP and SWIP Block I aircraft, was that the former had the original metal wings, whereas the latter had composite wings.  The SWIP Block IA was fitted with updated navigations systems and a new HUD, but it never entered service. 

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