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Problem with AI Aircraft Target Priority


Drag80
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I made a mission and and on a way point tasked the aircraft to search and engage enemy in nearby zone. No matter what Aircraft type, they do not follow waypoints and instructions. They start moving towards the S300 system located some 100 nm away which is not even a threat. When set to CAS, they should engage the ground units as instructed in waypoint and should not go for the SAM 100nm away. 

 

On SEAD task it is understandable if they ignore the command and go for SAM but on CAS they should not prioritize the S300 and ignore the nearby ground units.   

 

Hence AI Aircrafts not following waypoints and waypoint instructions. 

 

Its very frustrating.


Edited by Drag80
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You have to trick them into performing sometimes.  They will follow their waypoints as long as they do not detect an enemy.  Once they acquire a target they won't return to waypoints until the battle is over.  You can set the visibility of enemy units at waypoints to reveal them when you want the AI to engage.  In general, I decide where I want the dogfight, then I set up the units such that they end up fighting where I want them.  Also, I usually add the Orbit command with a 1 hr stop condition and then add the search and engage order.  This works well.

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43 minutes ago, glide said:

You have to trick them into performing sometimes.  They will follow their waypoints as long as they do not detect an enemy.  Once they acquire a target they won't return to waypoints until the battle is over.  You can set the visibility of enemy units at waypoints to reveal them when you want the AI to engage.  In general, I decide where I want the dogfight, then I set up the units such that they end up fighting where I want them.  Also, I usually add the Orbit command with a 1 hr stop condition and then add the search and engage order.  This works well.

Noted. Thanks for the insight. Will try and get back.

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Basically this behavior is not correct. When set to CAS, they should follow the way points and engage the ground units as instructed. I have tried everything but they simply ignore the ground units nearby and move towards the SAM S300 system which is located 100 nm away. The SAM that far away is not even a threat.  

 

Yes, if set to SEAD, then it is ok to move towards the SAM where ever it is placed.

 

There is a difference between CAS and SEAD which the AIs dont seem to understand. This is a major bug and should be fixed.  

 

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10 hours ago, glide said:

Are you assigning the A-10 to the CAS mission?  

That's Affirmative. I have tried different Aircrafts on CAS mission and given them proper loadout. There are enemy ground units approx. 20 NM away. I have given them way points and assigned "find and engage in zone" also tried "engage group". However, at the very start of the mission they turn towards the S300 which is approx. 100 nm away.

 

Tried various aircrafts, various coalitions and perhaps every trick in the book but they behave the same. 

 


Edited by Drag80
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  • Drag80 changed the title to Problem with AI Aircraft Target Priority
4 hours ago, Drag80 said:

Roger I Will send you the mission file as soon as possible.

OK these are three mission. There are 3 AIs in each mission with the following waypoint commands:

 

1. Search engage in zone.

2. Engage group.

3. Search and engage group.

 

You can check the behavior of all three Aircrafts.

 

One has Mirages as AI, second JF17 as AIs and third A10s as AI.

Sample MissionMirage.miz Sample MissionJF17.miz Sample MissionA10s.miz

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As a general rule, all general “task specific” enroute tasks are useless and should be removed the first thing you do when you set up an AI aircraft. If you see anything with the white highlight and marked as “-a -ref” in the WP task list, delete it. Always. This should become almost instinctual as you build your missions.

 

The “CAS” and “CAP” enroute tasks are particularly notorious in this regard, but you should treat all of them the same, including things like Escort or Tanker. You always want to set up these behaviours yourself, and often using completely different tasks than the one the ME auto-generates. CAP and CAS in particular seem to operate on a logic where the AI fetches a list of enemy units of the appropriate type and just picks the first two to go after until the end of time, no matter how far away they are, how incompatible they are with the rest of the task list, and how incapable the aircraft is at engaging them.

 

For CAS and CAP behaviour, you want to use any of the “search and engage in zone”-variants — pick the one with sufficient specificity for what you want to accomplish.

 

The Tanker and Escort tasks behave semi-sensibly, but you still want to ensure that they only operate within very specific parameters that the automation doesn't provide so you will have to delete the auto task and make your own regardless.

 

The AWACS task… actually, that one pretty much works right out of the box, unless you want to have a scenario where the aircraft start on the ground and only provides services while on station. If it's just a plane that starts in the air and never goes anywhere, you can keep the automated task as it is. But this is the one exception to the rule (and again, even here, you probably want to delete it and set it up yourself).

 

It's hard to tell how much of this is really an AI bug that can be “fixed” and how much is just legacy junk code that should be excised completely because it serves no purpose.

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16 minutes ago, Tippis said:

As a general rule, all general “task specific” enroute tasks are useless and should be removed the first thing you do when you set up an AI aircraft. If you see anything with the white highlight and marked as “-a -ref” in the WP task list, delete it. Always. This should become almost instinctual as you build your missions.

 

The “CAS” and “CAP” enroute tasks are particularly notorious in this regard, but you should treat all of them the same, including things like Escort or Tanker. You always want to set up these behaviours yourself, and often using completely different tasks than the one the ME auto-generates. CAP and CAS in particular seem to operate on a logic where the AI fetches a list of enemy units of the appropriate type and just picks the first two to go after until the end of time, no matter how far away they are, how incompatible they are with the rest of the task list, and how incapable the aircraft is at engaging them.

 

For CAS and CAP behaviour, you want to use any of the “search and engage in zone”-variants — pick the one with sufficient specificity for what you want to accomplish.

 

The Tanker and Escort tasks behave semi-sensibly, but you still want to ensure that they only operate within very specific parameters that the automation doesn't provide so you will have to delete the auto task and make your own regardless.

 

The AWACS task… actually, that one pretty much works right out of the box, unless you want to have a scenario where the aircraft start on the ground and only provides services while on station. If it's just a plane that starts in the air and never goes anywhere, you can keep the automated task as it is. But this is the one exception to the rule (and again, even here, you probably want to delete it and set it up yourself).

 

It's hard to tell how much of this is really an AI bug that can be “fixed” and how much is just legacy junk code that should be excised completely because it serves no purpose.

Thanks for all this useful information. If you can kindly see the above mission files and let me know what I am wrong. Thanks. 

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53 minutes ago, Drag80 said:

OK these are three mission. There are 3 AIs in each mission with the following waypoint commands:

 

1. Search engage in zone.

2. Engage group.

3. Search and engage group.

 

You can check the behavior of all three Aircrafts.

 

One has Mirages as AI, second JF17 as AIs and third A10s as AI.

Sample MissionMirage.miz 47.31 kB · 1 download Sample MissionJF17.miz 47.21 kB · 1 download Sample MissionA10s.miz 47.5 kB · 1 download

There are multiple problems in that mission (i checked only JF17), it appears you dont really understand how waypoint actions work.

1) Remove the default waypoint action, as Tippis says.

2) Because all three flights have CAS Enroute task active, it suspends current flightplan/Task to perform that Enroute task as soon as a ground target is detected. This happens instantly at the beginning of the mission because of S-300s emissions, so all three flights never even reach the first waypoint.

3) Enroute tasks have zero duration. Which means that in your mission, Aerial-2 and Aerial-4 (unlike Aerial-3, they use Enroute tasks) would go instantly home after reaching the last waypoint if CAS Enroute task was removed. To prevent Aerial-2 and Aerial-4 from following the flight plan, you'd need to add an Orbit task, or Switch waypoint command to keep them in a cycle of waypoints.

4) Enroute tasks of Aerial-2 and Aerial-4 require the AI to detect the target first. They dont know the target exists. What those Enroute tasks do is making the AI do something once the AI becomes aware of that target.

 

You should read DCS manual, the part on Tasks and Enroute tasks. It is essential.

 


Edited by dorianR666

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X

GPU: AMD RX 580

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(i made some errors in the previous post, fixed now)

 

here is a fixed version

Sample MissionJF17_fixed.miz

 

What happens here:

1) plane flies to waypoint 1. This isnt interrupted because there is no active Enroute task.

2) At waypont 1, Task (not Enroute task!) of Attack group becomes active. Tasks, unlike Enroute tasks, have duration. Flight plan will not advance until this Task is finished. Because it is a Task, unlike Enroute task, the AI instantly becomes aware of existence of the target and doesnt need to detect it.

 


Edited by dorianR666

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X

GPU: AMD RX 580

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2 hours ago, Tippis said:

As a general rule, all general “task specific” enroute tasks are useless and should be removed the first thing you do when you set up an AI aircraft. If you see anything with the white highlight and marked as “-a -ref” in the WP task list, delete it. Always. This should become almost instinctual as you build your missions.

 

The “CAS” and “CAP” enroute tasks are particularly notorious in this regard, but you should treat all of them the same, including things like Escort or Tanker. You always want to set up these behaviours yourself, and often using completely different tasks than the one the ME auto-generates. CAP and CAS in particular seem to operate on a logic where the AI fetches a list of enemy units of the appropriate type and just picks the first two to go after until the end of time, no matter how far away they are, how incompatible they are with the rest of the task list, and how incapable the aircraft is at engaging them.

 

For CAS and CAP behaviour, you want to use any of the “search and engage in zone”-variants — pick the one with sufficient specificity for what you want to accomplish.

 

The Tanker and Escort tasks behave semi-sensibly, but you still want to ensure that they only operate within very specific parameters that the automation doesn't provide so you will have to delete the auto task and make your own regardless.

 

The AWACS task… actually, that one pretty much works right out of the box, unless you want to have a scenario where the aircraft start on the ground and only provides services while on station. If it's just a plane that starts in the air and never goes anywhere, you can keep the automated task as it is. But this is the one exception to the rule (and again, even here, you probably want to delete it and set it up yourself).

 

It's hard to tell how much of this is really an AI bug that can be “fixed” and how much is just legacy junk code that should be excised completely because it serves no purpose.

Thankyou so much for the insight. I understand that the default CAS or CAP has to be removed otherwise the AI will never reach the waypoint and start prioritizing targets on its own. It seems to work but for a certain Aircrafts like JF17 and A10s. Aircrafts like mirages and SU33 are still not attacking the assigned group. 

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2 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

(i made some errors in the previous post, fixed now)

 

here is a fixed version

Sample MissionJF17_fixed.miz 47.58 kB · 2 downloads

 

What happens here:

1) plane flies to waypoint 1. This isnt interrupted because there is no active Enroute task.

2) At waypont 1, Task (not Enroute task!) of Attack group becomes active. Tasks, unlike Enroute tasks, have duration. Flight plan will not advance until this Task is finished. Because it is a Task, unlike Enroute task, the AI instantly becomes aware of existence of the target and doesnt need to detect it.

 

 

Thankyou so much for your help in the matter. The JF17 and A10 are working now as per mission plan. However, Mirage and SU33 and some other Aircrafts type(with rockets and iron bombs) still not willing to attack the target.

 

Is it due to the inferior weapons? Can you please check it with Mirage and SU33? I have removed the default "CAS" as you told and only assigned at the waypoint.

 

As per my humble opinion, all aircrafts should follow the waypoint command regardless of the type of weapon given to them. 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

(i made some errors in the previous post, fixed now)

 

here is a fixed version

Sample MissionJF17_fixed.miz 47.58 kB · 3 downloads

 

What happens here:

1) plane flies to waypoint 1. This isnt interrupted because there is no active Enroute task.

2) At waypont 1, Task (not Enroute task!) of Attack group becomes active. Tasks, unlike Enroute tasks, have duration. Flight plan will not advance until this Task is finished. Because it is a Task, unlike Enroute task, the AI instantly becomes aware of existence of the target and doesnt need to detect it.

 

 

First of thanks again for your help and guidance. 

 

As regards Mirage and SU33 etc not engaging the target, I did some experiments. If the AI detects that the Threat is greater than its capability, then it will not engage the targets. If I remove the Avengers then in that case it will engage the tanks. If there are avengers in the target group, it will bug out. The AIs simply do not want to commit suicide. Hence, it is NOT a Bug.

 

Also, with enroute task, I have added the orbit command and the AI now engages the target.

 

However, in my opinion with "search and engage", if there are enemy units present, the AI should not RTB and should search and engage without the "orbit" or "switch way points" command.

 

Rest is ok as it is.

 

Best Regards to all who have shared the knowledge and helped.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Drag80 said:

However, in my opinion with "search and engage", if there are enemy units present, the AI should not RTB and should search and engage without the "orbit" or "switch way points" command.

Its necessary. Enroute tasks allow suspending and resuming Tasks. Thats intentional, necessary and by design. It would be disastrous if it didnt work the way it does, many situations would be impossible to script or too difficult.

Also they will actually attack instead of RTB - if the targets are known to the AI at the moment of activation of the Enroute task. What the orbit does is giving the AI an opportunity to discover the targets or wait until the targets arrive (for example, CAP against incoming enemy fighters).
Please read the manual. It explains it all. You will absolutely need it for mission creating.

 

12 minutes ago, Drag80 said:

If the AI detects that the Threat is greater than its capability, then it will not engage the targets. If I remove the Avengers then in that case it will engage the tanks. If there are avengers in the target group, it will bug out. The AIs simply do not want to commit suicide.

Yes, they wont attack if they dont have means to do so. However sometimes they will also not attack even if they have means, if for example there are powerful SAM sites or too many enemy fighters nearby. In that case, AI may abort its task. If you ever come across this, you can disable it by adding Reaction to threat option, set to Evasive vertical maneuver. This will allow the AI to use all defenses except aborting. For AG missions, you should also disable jettisoning, or the AI will drop all its weapons when fired at.

 

10 minutes ago, Drag80 said:

First of thanks again for your help and guidance. 

Happy to help.

 

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X

GPU: AMD RX 580

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