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HOTAS Recommendations


MTM

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After 8 years, my X-52 Pro sadly has flown its last sortie. A plastic piece inside the throttle broke and despite my best efforts, it doesn’t look like it’s going to be fixable. 
 

So now it’s HOTAS shopping time! What do you guys recommend? I loved my X-52 Pro and I haven’t ruled out getting another one but a reasonably affordable upgrade would be nice! 

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I have only tried two HOTAS personally: The HOTAS Warthog and the CH Pro Throttle, and Fighterstick. The CH Pro products are pretty durable, I used them for a few years, though my Pro Throttle had a very poorly made mini-stick (The sensor would stick in the middle)  and a very jittery throttle axis, considering that the pair is somewhere between $200-300 that might be a deal breaker. I was able to work through those issues and I had a large number of controls that I was able bind, plus the Fighterstick and pro throttle are great facsimile for the F-16 HOTAS. The CH Pro setup has a very light joystick and throttle throw.

 

The HOTAS Warthog has some improvements over the CH Pro stuff, mainly they are a replica A-10C HOTAS and have a lot of buttons and switches. The major drawback of the HOTAS Warthog would seem to be cost cutting in some critical areas. Some of the buttons are of a lesser quality, my flap switch on the throttle was misaligned and would not always send signals in the forward position, and the Joystick base has a plastic gimbal with low quality grease that lends to a loss of precision control and "Sticktion" (this can be solved with new grease or a stick extension). Overall the extremely precise Hall effect sensors in the Warthog were immediately noticeable. I have heard excellent things about Virpil and VKB controls, but I have no experience with those companies.

Modules

Combined Arms, Super Carrier, A-10A, A-10C, A-10C II, F-14, ,F-15C, F-16C, F/A-18C, P-51, Su-25, Su-27, MiG-21, MiG-29, Ajs-37, UH-1H, Ka-50, Sa-342

Terrains

Nevada Test and Training Range, The Persian Gulf, Normandy 1944, Syria

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Can I ask were you happy with your X52 lasting 8 years for the amount of use you put into it? Do you want something where you can expect that it will last at least as long again, longer, or happy to pay less for something that will last a shorter amount of time? Do you want as many controls as possible, or are you after something that's more a direct match? What's important to you? What about reliability. Are you happy to pay less for something with more features but potential quirks?

 

I ask because straight out recommendations without parameters are kinda pointless and mostly personal preferences as to what people already own. Having some idea of where your priorities lie, otherwise you'll get anything from a $100 module to a $5,000 one. 😉 


Edited by Dangerzone
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Thanks for the info! I primarily fly in VR so I can't see the keyboard. Therefore, the buttons, hats, and switches I can get the better. 

 

Warthog looks like a solid option. 

X52 Pro is obviously another option at a lower price. 

X56 looks very promising.

Virpil Mongoose throttle with Constellation stick looks looks amazing. 

 

At the moment, those are the four options I'm considering. Price is definitely a factor here if I don't want to sleep on the couch for the next month! Unfortunately prices look INSANE right now!!! 🤯

 

To answer your question Dangerzone, a good balance between affordability and reliability would be nice. Definitely have to stay under $500. Ideally, under $300. That alone might force me back into another X52 Pro. 

 

MTM

 

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I owned a x52 and when my throttle broke inside, i was on a budget and found a returned thrustmaster FCS set on amazon for around 130€. The t16000m is a good precise stick but it lacks a lot of buttons. The twcs throttle is really good for a single axis throttle, its a rail design and with the impulse slider mod its unbeatable in its price range. The rudder pedals are rudder pedals, quite narrow but they do the job.

 

If you are on a budget and want to stay around 300$, i would go for a vkb gladiator nxt and the thrustmaster twcs throttle with slider mod, which is around another 25$. The gladiator nxt got some really good reviews, there are a lot of videos on youtube about it just check it out. You will also find a couple of vids to the Impulse slider mod for the TWCS throttle.

Specs:WIN10, I7-4790K, ASUS RANGER VII, 16GB G.Skill DDR3, GEFORCE 1080, NVME SSD, SSD, VIRPIL T-50 THROTTLE, K-51 COLLECTIVE, MS FFB2 (CH COMBATSTICK MOD), MFG CROSSWINDS, JETPAD, RIFT S

Modules:A10C, AH-64D, AJS-37, AV8B, BF109K4, CA, F/A18C, F14, F5EII, F86F, FC3, FW190A8, FW190D9, KA50, L39, M2000C, MI8TV2, MI24P, MIG15BIS, MIG19P, MIG21BIS, MIRAGE F1, P51D, SA342, SPITFIRE, UH1H, NORMANDY, PERSIAN GULF, CHANNEL, SYRIA
 
Thrustmaster TWCS Afterburner Detent
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=223776
 
My Frankenwinder ffb2 stick
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4 hours ago, MTM said:

Warthog looks like a solid option. 

 

Warthog stick gimbals need to be modded, way to much friction makes it less precise (imo).

Win11 Pro 64-bit, Ryzen 5800X3D, Corsair H115i, Gigabyte X570S UD, EVGA 3080Ti XC3 Ultra 12GB, 64 GB DDR4 G.Skill 3600. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base, MFG Crosswind combat pedals, TrackIR4, Rift-S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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9 hours ago, MTM said:

Thanks for the info! I primarily fly in VR so I can't see the keyboard. Therefore, the buttons, hats, and switches I can get the better. 

 

Warthog looks like a solid option. 

X52 Pro is obviously another option at a lower price. 

X56 looks very promising.

Virpil Mongoose throttle with Constellation stick looks looks amazing. 

 

At the moment, those are the four options I'm considering. Price is definitely a factor here if I don't want to sleep on the couch for the next month! Unfortunately prices look INSANE right now!!! 🤯

 

To answer your question Dangerzone, a good balance between affordability and reliability would be nice. Definitely have to stay under $500. Ideally, under $300. That alone might force me back into another X52 Pro. 

 

MTM

 

 

I do not recommend X56.  Throttle is okay but stick is even worse than X52.

 

I was in similar situation with you just a month ago.  My 13 year old X52 Pro stick gave out and needed replacement.  And I didn't want to spend $1,000 so I went with VKB Gladiator NXT Premium for $186 USD including shipping.  Stick is well made and feels very sturdy.  It's not perfect, some button placement and button functions are questionable.  The software is the worst I've ever used so far.  I don't even touch it and just use DCS mapping.  But the most important aspect, the feel and precision is big upgrade from X52 Pro without breaking bank.  But then it's stick only so you either have to use the small throttle on the base or use your X52 Pro throttle if it still works.


Edited by Taz1004
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21 hours ago, MTM said:

After 8 years, my X-52 Pro sadly has flown its last sortie. A plastic piece inside the throttle broke and despite my best efforts, it doesn’t look like it’s going to be fixable. 
 

So now it’s HOTAS shopping time! What do you guys recommend? I loved my X-52 Pro and I haven’t ruled out getting another one but a reasonably affordable upgrade would be nice! 

 

I only recommend these days the VKB or Virpil.

The prices are higher than what you pay for X52 Pro that costs at this moment about 190€.

 

But, luckily VKB offers the great premium version, their NXT joystick for about 190€ and then later this year their just announced throttle, that starts with a 200€ (rotating throttle, with mechanical detents). Virpil has nothing to offer for that price range, as there you need to go to same high price range as the VKB as well.

 

So if you can wait to get VKB, I would take that as even at about 400 € price range, you don't likely get anything better as HOTAS.

 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/SCG-R-P_1024.jpg

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/download/file.php?id=10231&mode=view

 

If you are willing to put 600-800€ for the HOTAS, then VKB and Virpil offers great combos where you buy the base + grip + throttle.

The VKB throttle comes with three bases, a tilting one as above and later then the rail one. Where the tilting one will be cheap with mentioned detents and premium one with new patent pending programmable electronic one (that you can swap in the fly for a different profiles you have made, or make a new in the fly for various aircraft).

 

I do not recommend Thrustmaster Warthog to anyone. If that grip design for a A-10C and F-16C is a must, then I would turn to Virpil and get their base, get a Warthog grip somewhere and work from there as with Virpil you can mount Thrustmaster F/A-18C grip as well to it.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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25 minutes ago, Taz1004 said:

The software is the worst I've ever used so far.  I don't even touch it and just use DCS mapping. 

 

The VKB software is very powerful and easy to use - once you get its logic. It is first little confusing as at the top part there is all features for the profile save/load and firmware flashing. And as well axis calibration.

 

TL;DR, one doesn't need to use VKB software at all if not wanted for anything else than just initial calibration after assembly and firmware updates (if wanted).

 

But the key features are really just at the bottom few tabs. Global, Profile and Test. From there everything is really tweaked, configured and programmed as pleased. But as you do, best way for majority is anyways the DCS own mapping, but what everyone should do in the the VKB device config software is to configure the hats, buttons and so on functions.

And I do not mean that what those does in the DCS like "Trigger = spacebar" but that what button ID does everything have.

 

Example for the MCG Pro I wanted my thumb mini-stick work differently than by default it does. As that hat performs by default a 2-axis mini-stick + push. But if you push the hat longer than 0.6 seconds, it will switch the mini-stick functionality to 8-way POV hat. So you can press long the button and switch between two modes. But I didn't like that 8-way hat as I don't have any use for it.

So I configured with the VKB software that second POV hat to be just a normal 4-way hat, with a 30% deadzone from center. Now I can map that in the DCS as a TMS hat in Warthog or Viper. I can have it as Sensor Select hat in a Hornet or a mini-stick in a Flanker.

I added few extra buttons to brake axis, to trigger axis and changed the trimmer hat operate as well in two different modes.

As well I did reprogram all the hats ID's to wanted order, so that they start IMHO a more logical numbers as Up -> Right -> Down -> Left being the order, while the standard I think (likely wrong) was Up -> Down -> Right -> Left.  As this way when I am binding something in the old games or anyways, I can easily stay on track that what does button #32 do when I just pressed #34.

 

Once you spend just the 30 min to go through the application that what is where and what each thing does, it becomes very easy to use.

So the old saying: "Easy to Learn != Easy to Use" is very true with it, and it becomes easy to use and very powerful just after learning and it doesn't really hold you back to do what you want.

 

The idea really is that you program the VKB hardware to do what you want it to have as hardware wise (like is a mini-stick a 4-way hat, 4-way hat with push, a 4-way POV, a 8-way POV, a trimmer that move center point of the another axis, or adjust another axis deadzones or curves...., is a specific button or hat a modifier that loads a different profile completely, that you can get recognized in DCS as extra Joystick or as another set of ID's for buttons and hats etc).

 

Many things are possible be done with the DCS own bindings, but not really this kind things like having a two or a three modes behind a single mini-stick.

 

It is totally wrong idea (IMHO) to even use any of joystick software to make bindings for the game. There are special cases like the old games (like Hind from 1996) that does not support anykind configuration. So only way to get things working is to have just a one device and it to have few buttons and few axis, and then you must use keyboard to rest, and that is where these special softwares come handy like the Joystick Gremlin where you can bind controller buttons and hats to input keyboard buttons. And game thinks then you are pressing keyboard.

 

And that is annoying thing as if you switch that software, then you need to redo all the work. But that is where example the VKB software comes handy as that is a firmware profile, so you can load it to hardware itself and move then hardware around. Similar thing was with the CH Commander software that you load the mapping to devices itself.

 

One software that I have never got around in years, is the Thrustmaster one. Couldn't get throttle and stick as combined one. Couldn't get the wanted keyboard bindings for stick alone etc. That is why I just liked the Joystick Gremlin for any old games with other than VKB software.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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I am very happy with my setup.

A VKB Gunfighter Pro MK III with 200mm extension and Ultimate Grip.

Virpil CM3 Throttle.

MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals.

 

Between the Gunfighter and the CM3 Throttle, I have more buttons/axis than I could possibly need.

 

Good quality equipment but at a quality price. I game on a daily basis though so I get my moneys worth out of them.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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53 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

The VKB software is very powerful and easy to use - once you get its logic. It is first little confusing as at the top part there is all features for the profile save/load and firmware flashing. And as well axis calibration.

 

I wasn't just referring to the UI even tho it is horrendous.  I read the manual and I understood how it functions.  That is why I say it is horrendous.

But the biggest issue with it is HOW it functions.  Firmware flashes rather than software profiler.  You need to open the program, download the firmware and update the firmware if you want different profile for different plane.  I never thought I'd say this but I guess I've been spoiled by Saitek profiler.  Been complaining about it for years but it now seem cutting edge compared to VKB.

 

You have to resort to 3rd party profiler such as Vjoy and Gremlin which I find to be quite buggy as well.

 

While I'm at it, I'll point out couple more cons I found with Gladiator NXT which might help the OP in buying decision.  From someone who switched from X52 Pro.

  1. Pinky switch location is awkward.  If you've been using X52 Pro's pinky as shift function, then this will be awkward to you.  By default it's lower than my natural pinky position but if I use the thicker rest pad, then I have to twist my hand to reach it.
  2. The two scroll wheels on the base are useless.  It may look like a mouse wheel but you can't make it work like mouse wheel.  It doesn't account for the speed of the rotation.  It only emulates clicks.  And by default, it's too slow to be used for rotating knobs.  And if you make it click too fast, then DCS doesn't recognize it.  Only thing you can assign them to are non critical functions such as NVG gain controls.  Even that, just keyboard presses are faster.
  3. This may depend on the production but the press function on HAT switches are very stiff.  Accidental press of HAT up happens sometimes.

 

Otherwise, rest of the stick is top notch.


Edited by Taz1004
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10 hours ago, MTM said:

Thanks for the info! I primarily fly in VR so I can't see the keyboard. Therefore, the buttons, hats, and switches I can get the better. 

 

Warthog looks like a solid option. 

X52 Pro is obviously another option at a lower price. 

X56 looks very promising.

Virpil Mongoose throttle with Constellation stick looks looks amazing. 

 

At the moment, those are the four options I'm considering. Price is definitely a factor here if I don't want to sleep on the couch for the next month! Unfortunately prices look INSANE right now!!! 🤯

 

To answer your question Dangerzone, a good balance between affordability and reliability would be nice. Definitely have to stay under $500. Ideally, under $300. That alone might force me back into another X52 Pro. 

 

MTM

 

 

Not sure how much I can chime in, the pricing you've specified will keep you in the 'compromise' territory, so my values differ greatly. 

 

About all I can do is echo what I think is important from above:

 

  • Please stay away from the X56 unless you're happy to be dealing with 'work arounds' and happy to try hardware fixes yourself.  It has numerous issues (yes, even the current 'upgraded' model, including slop in the stick, 'ghosting' inputs in the throttle, and sticky switch (pinky finger) in the throttle just to mention a few. I went with it because it was the best bang for buck - but had no idea how many problems I would face with it. I ended up biting the bullet and spending money I never thought I'd justify on VirPil and VKB products. After getting these though and seeing the difference in quality - I wish I had have known then what I know now...
  • I'm a fan of VKB and Virpil, but these may be out of your budget. Where I differ is that I love the software they've done. OK - so it's quite powerful and involved which can make it complicated (although there are plenty of youtube video's to assist) - but unlike Logitech and others - the software is not required to be running. It's used for programming (updating the chipset) of the control itself so once it's done, you can unload (or even remove) the software. All configuration is stored on the stick, so no more corrupt configuration files, or having to reprogram the stick if you upgrade your PC, etc. 

 

If this is out of your price range, and you have been happy with the X52, then I'd recommend that again over the X56. I get the feeling the X52 is built more reliably. 

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Thank you everyone for the advice. You guys convinced me to stay away from the X56!

 

Virpil and VKB make some amazing looking products! Unfortunately, the cost is just too high. Had hoped to be upgrading but it looks like the last man standing is my tried and true X52 Pro. At least I won’t have to go through the cumbersome task of reprogramming buttons again. 
 

Thanks again fellas! 
MTM

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